as sad as it is to admit, I dont think "I"m sorry" is required...I think that RW stated exactly what he believes. If that is the case, this forum isnt the place for him.
Well, Steadfast is due an apology by RW for even saying it...but it wont unring the bell and it certiantly doesnt suddenly change RW's beliefs
I also speculate that RW and Daniel have since been discussing the fact that he really stepped in it when he said what he said and are backpeddling to confuse the issue.
too bad he didnt discern the outcome of such comments - before he made them.
Thankfully PP stepped up and has muddied the water more so that once again the Daniel behaviour is forgotten about
as sad as it is to admit, I dont think "I"m sorry" is required...I think that RW stated exactly what he believes. If that is the case, this forum isnt the place for him.
Well, Steadfast is due an apology by RW for even saying it...but it wont unring the bell and it certiantly doesnt suddenly change RW's beliefs
I also speculate that RW and Daniel have since been discussing the fact that he really stepped in it when he said what he said and are backpeddling to confuse the issue.
too bad he didnt discern the outcome of such comments - before he made them.
Thankfully PP stepped up and has muddied the water more so that once again the Daniel behaviour is forgotten about
Theresa,
Your thoughts about the Daniel/RW deal I agree with.
I don't think PP has intentionally muddied the water; he has simply responded to what seems to be a hot button issue for him.
Ferd, when Daniel started out on that "I've seen it before" deal, I knew that was exactly where he was going with it.
And this time the ideology divide has nothing at all to do with what happened.
Exactly. which means Dan has done harm to an issue that many of us have gone to bat over.....
and to add to what several have already said, we are taking a thread about the wonderful working of God in the life of a woman who has been healed of an unspeakable hurt and turned it into a row.
Sadly, what you have done here, and myself and others, was necessary and right.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Admin is reviewing all this. Lets please not make more personal attacks.
Here are the posts as they appeared:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWayne
Oh it does work, especially when you are TRULY not expecting it and giving 100% selflessly. Just like I met my wife mere days after deciding to stop looking and FOR THE FIRST TIME, giving it to Him.
If I am not mistaken, giving is the ONE thing that God asks us to "test Him" on.
As for the initial post though, to say I have reservations is an EXTREME understatement. Too many "amens!" have followed to rain on any parades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWayne
Yes, I am saying I STRONGLY doubt the words of the preacher and his words of knowledge.
Now the story about the $1000 gifts and the resulting "rewards" it totally believable..... but I have major problems with the initial post.
After RW posted the above 2 posts, I wanted to give him the opportunity to clarify himself and posted the following.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stmatthew
Randy,
I know you are probably feeling on the spot here, but could you give a reason why you are in doubt. I also think it would be good to clear any misunderstandings by clarifying whether you believe steadfast was fooled, or is lying about this. This would ease some minds (or stir them up worse).
So is it that you do not believe the gift was real, and that the man had prior knowledge? Is there a reason you do not believe God can or would give a preacher this kind of knowledge.
Inquiring minds want to know just where you are coming from with your post.
Instead of catching up on the thread and clarifying himself, he went on to post the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWayne
Sorry.... I made the last post minutes before leaving the house and haven't gotten back on the computer till this afternoon. NOW I am leaving for the store for an hour or so and will be back a bit later.
But in the meantime there are MANY gifts of the spirit. One that I have been given (and it is as much of a curse as it is a blessing) is the gift of discernment. It is a gift that ranks right up there with "patience" when it comes to the pain of constantly being tested. Oh, how I would LOVE to be able to fall into emotional extacy over everything that cannot be immediately explained and not have little things like this bother me.... But they do.
When a MAJOR tragedy happens and someone seems to magically "know" what happened, what I find more amazing then the "word of knowledge" is the fact that the guy didn't know about the tragedy ahead of time! Something as big as that impresses me about as much as someone who says "and the next card you pull from the top will be the queen of diamonds" -after being given a minute to rifle through the deck and see what order they were in. But as long as the prediction is made with authority, volume, and in a scary voice, the crowds "oooohhhhhhhssss!" at the wonderment of it all. Most are afraid to even question the validity for fear of committing blasphemy. In fact the one making the statements is protected by a house of logic that precludes the possibility of questioning.
Again, I haven't read any of the posts since making my last and really need to run for a bit but I suspect I am in the extreme minority here, but be that as it may I sense something in Denmark and it ain't pretty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWayne
Is is BORN of discernment though.... Something I have witnessed and disseminated diligently!
Again, it is a blessing/curse combo. I would LOVE to get lost in emotionalism and forget the world from time to time. It is like a 1 1/2 ton weight on my shoulder. But I can't. And it is not just fiery preaching either.... I have the same reaction to certain motivational speakers, pep rallies, and the lone guy sitting on a milk crate trying to incite a crowd. All emotion but little to no spirit. However I have felt palpable moves of the spirit in some of the quietest times and from some of the quietest preachers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWayne
Thats exactly it. A scenario is created where simply questioning someone is tat amount to blasphemy. This is just as dangerous, and indeed the flip side, to having no accountability.
I simply know how things like this "are done" and believe me IF I WANTED to (not that I would dare to) I could fool an awful lot of people with my ability to "read" them and tell them things that only THEY would know about.
Of course as an amateur magician, I have run into my fair share of fellow Christians who were fine with a few tricks I did UNTIL I pulled out my big guns (or "money" tricks as they are known) and completely baffled them to the point that it "MUST have been of the devil!". Now imagine if I meant to pull the wool over their eyes, aka, Uri Geller?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWayne
Did I?
<big sigh>
This is where we come to when the mere questioning of something very suspicious, in an environment where preachers are NOT to be questioned, takes place.
I think of a preacher going to Minn, MN a couple of days after the bridge collapse and saying in church "and the Lord told me a great tragedy occurred here!" and having the audience amazed at his spiritual insight (yes, it is called insight when a preacher "senses" something) when any bloomin idiot with a radio or tv or newspaper, has heard about it every few minutes for days! Yet in their suspension of disbelief they think the Lord miraculously told him.
Now I do NOT know the players involved here from Howard in South Caroline. (And I do not know Howard in South Carolina. I just assume that there are many of them.) Perhaps my NOT knowing anyone gives me a leg up.
I have seen true miracles and felt God moving and it is usually NOT during rip roarin services or while preachers are shouting or giving words of knowledge. To hear something that sounds like it comes from a John Edwards (of Crossing Over fame) or Silvia Brown, or Uri Geller, makes me want to go crawl in a corner and whimper. God is so much bigger then that.
Now from everything I have read, RW did the following:
Stated his reservations and doubt as to the preacher and his words of knowledge.
Stated there were many gifts of the Spirit and the one he had been given the gift of discernment
implied that what took place was rotten (in Denmark)
That what he witnessed and disseminated diligently was born of discernment
Implied that the event was from emotion, and likened it to motivational speakers and pep rallies
Basically stated that the preacher had pulled the wool over folks eye's
Implied that this event was similar to what spiritualist and soothsayers do.
This is what I am seeing so far. I do not see Bro Steadfast being called a liar, but I do see the evangelist plainly being called a fraud, and this is supposedly coming from a gift of discernment, and not just from RW's opinion.
Will continue to look at this in admin, but all I just listed came directly from RW's posts.
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