Are Beards The Mark Of The Beast?

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

We left the UPC for these very reasons. Beside the UPC being in decline, I'm not talking about members they have like 30 million world wide I'm talking about Spiritually. The Affirmation statement thing I added that because it will happen they don't follow it all the way for the most part anyway, and are against it as you just demonstrated.

We left maybe about a year and 1/2 ago, since then our church has been strongly blessed by God. Kenneth Haney and Western Apostolic Bible College released that doctrine mostly on the State of California around the Stockton area. Where its headed after that I don't know, but you did post a quote of Brother David Bernard also being supportive of it.

Long story short the UPCI was a great organization but it has seen better days. Not number wise, not popularity, but in the glory of God that was upon it. Say what you want but our church has got the glory stronger then ever since we left that organization.

(Notice to anybody in the UPCI no hard feelings this has nothing to do with the people, or the churches, but the leadership is not what it use to be historically..) I'll leave it at that.

As previously stated, I fellowship both UPC and WPF. Both Orgs are doing well in my opinion. Both orgs have their own issues, which I will not go into here, because that is not the point.
Insofar as to the UPC supporting the "light doctrine" that is false.
If you have "proof" that it is true, present it.
But if not, quit making accusations without proof or just based on what you happened to hear that someone else heard.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Gimme a break. Here you tell EB not to judge the appearance of the house church, and you go and judge ministers and congregants to be shallow and fake.

As for whether people are fake when shaking hands, I don't know. I certainly am not going to call them fake and shallow.

And to Minister's being fake in the pulpit, I don't recall ever seeing a minister fake it.

NDavid… I'm only talking about some of the fakery I've personally witnessed in pulpits. I know there are good churches. I was simply mentioning a pet peeve of mine. I assumed that you guys would oppose such phoniness also. Why the push back?

But again, your view from the cheap seats must be pretty good.

Actually, I was on the platform for quite a bit of it. Worship leader, praise team, and I was on the minister's team. I was maybe with feet of most of what I'm referring to.

If you've honestly never seen it, that's a good thing. But we all know there are churches with phony emotions in the pulpit, smoke machines, concert lights, and empty hype.

I'm confused, are we agreeing or disagreeing?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

or maybe bitterness is distorting your perception?

I'm not saying all traditional churches are like this. I'm only mentioning that it's a reality that such churches exist.

I'm surprised no one will own up to seeing it themselves. It's even been at conferences.

Could one's bias or love for the institutional church be distorting one's perception to the point that they are not willing to admit that fake tears and contrived emotional pleading are ignored for the sake of the institution itself?

[Aquila]

The point is, one doesn't have to attend an institutional church to be a genuine born again believer in fellowship with other genuine born again believers.

[Amanah]

I'm not saying all traditional churches are like this. I'm only mentioning that it's a reality that such churches exist.

I'm surprised no one will own up to seeing it themselves. It's even been at conferences.

Could one's bias or love for the institutional church be distorting one's perception to the point that they are not willing to admit that fake tears and contrived emotional pleading are ignored for the sake of the institution itself?

I have not seen what you are claiming to have seen, that is why it seems to me that your perception is off.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I have not seen what you are claiming to have seen, that is why it seems to me that your perception is off.

You've never seen a preacher do the "fake crying" with hanky in hand, eyes clinched, no tears, and the solemn and theatrical cry of , "Ohhhh LORD, please have mercy on this people!!!", or something like that? You've never heard the drawn out, unnatural, vibrato filled, "HaaaaAAAaaalleluuuuUUUUjah!"'s?

It's not natural to cry Hallelujah like a wounded opera singer. lol It's theatrics.

In fact, I've even seen and heard it in a few of the videos posted here.

Maybe you guys are so used to the practice you don't notice it.

When you've been away from the Sunday Show for a while... and then go back... it's glaring. It's almost like the entire room is caught up in the spell and you're sitting there thinking, "This guy is preaching with more vibrato than Pavarotti himself." lol

Then there is the "contemporary" or "relevant" churches. Here's a lighthearted video showing how fake they are:

[Aquila]

I love these videos. Here's a favorite of mine. lol

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

As previously stated, I fellowship both UPC and WPF. Both Orgs are doing well in my opinion. Both orgs have their own issues, which I will not go into here, because that is not the point.
Insofar as to the UPC supporting the "light doctrine" that is false.
If you have "proof" that it is true, present it.
But if not, quit making accusations without proof or just based on what you happened to hear that someone else heard.

That came from my Pastor and his Pastor and Elder was high up in the UPC organization, and that was one of the huge reasons we left.

I'm not just saying something I heard from a forum or in the streets. He said he could no longer look himself in the face in the morning and hold that office. That's what I'm basing this off of.

I'll leave it at that. Believe me or don't believe me is fine. But btw we didnt join the WPF either.

[Aquila]

Oh, this one is a riot, sports fans. lol

[Aquila]

So, please have a little mercy on those of us who can't stomach this sort of "churchianity". Yes, we'd rather stay home, read our Bibles, and pray with family. Or we'd rather meet with small groups of other believers in homes, coffee shops, parks, at work, in restaurants, etc.. Or, we might even seek other means of fellowship over the internet and various other social media.

The Sunday Show just isn't everyone's cup of tea.

Honestly, there are more references to churches gathering in smaller groups in homes for teaching and fellowship throughout the NT than there are references to large buildings, salaried pastorates, choirs, special songs, foot stomping, hand clapping, the chicken dance, concert style lights & smoke, steeples, and all that jazz.

And when you've been ostracized over a beard or some silliness by the institutional church, you begin to realize that church is far more than what they're selling anyway. It's about being a people walking in a spiritual kingdom that is separated from the world, even its incorporated religious institutions. The beard actually becomes a blessing. A tool God used to wake you up to what is real verses what is fake, contrived, governed by human tradition, opinion, and institutional "identity". You begin to realize how many "Christians" are being conformed into the image of some tradition or institution and not Christ Himself.

Since there is nothing in Scripture about beards being prohibited or required for NT saints, the moment you hear the droning condemnation of beards, you can know instantly that you're in a church that isn't focused on the book, but rather, they are focused on their own traditions and worldly organizational identity.