I have Left the UPC Church

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Ronzo

Nate, you're less important than fried FISH!!!

So... that means you're really NOT all that and a bag of CHIPS!...

Get it? Fish... and chips???



Appeals to his favorite lurker...

Hi RAY!!! Did that make you chuckle?

I haven't seen Ray ANYWHERE in quite a while.

Is she okay?

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I haven't seen Ray ANYWHERE in quite a while.

Is she okay?

She's fine as far as I can tell. She's over at Reymah quite often.


I'd like to let you know that we all miss you over there... including, and especially me.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Nate, that is so far from what I'm saying. The early church congregated together, broke bread together, prayed for each other. The body of Christ is the church of the living God. I'm not talking about a church building. To separate oneself from fellowship with other believers is dangerous. If you are not fellowshipping with other believers then you have in effect amputated yourself from the body.

And, please, I'm not saying she is without God or that she can't rejoin the body but if she or anyone is without fellowship of the body then they are alone and easy prey.

Sister, I see what you are saying, but you need to remember that fellowship can come in different forms. It doesn't necessarily have to be face to face meeting up with people. This forum, for example, could be considered fellowship. People have the ability to bring their needs, their testimonies, their hurts, etc., to AFF. They can get prayer, encouragement, advice, etc. from their friends here at AFF. I didn't used to feel this way about this place when it was NFCF or FCF, but I can see how people care for each other around here when the "chips are down" and it isn't a huge stretch to say AFF is a place of fellowship for some people. I agree that face to face fellowship is important also, but it's not the only way to stay connected to God's people.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by nathan_slatter

In my experiences... not often. I've seen saints have to ask to go on vacation, what color car to drive, whether or not they should find a job.

I've never experienced this and I've fellowshipped with two different UPC churchs in England and in Maryland. The pastor I have now is ex UPC and maintains friendships with current UPC ministers in this area. He doesn't require this type of control either.

I've seen people who can't stay away from their home church for more than a service or two and they are out watching porn and sinning...

Hypocrites and sinners can be found in every church, have you read revelations or Corinthians lately? Neither of these is an excuse not to be in fellowship with believers.

IMO, they come to church are spoon fed doctrine/theology (which they accept without question) and become fat and lazy, spiritually. They aren't encouraged to get out and do the things of God. It is the pastors job to everything from visit the sick to bring food to those who are poor and hungry -- or they have to get permission first. I could go on and on but won't. No, I don't believe that this is the rule but neither is it the exception.

Is all the blame to be on the pastor? or is there accountablility with God for each of us? Work out your own salvation....

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

He wins the gong award.That was a thoughtless answer.Sorry but I have to agree to disagree.

OK, how about a thoughtful definition of "assembling of ourselves together"?

Originally Posted by COOPER

Every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father above.

Are you a perfect gift?

Men are not perfect they will never be and should never be viewed and trusted as such Perfect gifts.

You have misquoted the Word Bro. Cooper. That verse in James actually indicates two categories... Every good gift AND every perfect gift is from above...

Coop,

Please consider that God knew every preachers character, personality and flaws when He called him and placed him in the church as the gift to the church. Do you not believe that men in the ministry are called of God to the perfect office they fill in their imperfect state?

[Rico]

Originally Posted by philjones

You have misquoted the Word Bro. Cooper. That verse in James actually indicates two categories... Every good gift AND every perfect gift is from above...

Coop,

Please consider that God knew every preachers character, personality and flaws when He called him and placed him in the church as the gift to the church. Do you not believe that men in the ministry are called of God to the perfect office they fill in their imperfect state?

The imperfect fulfilling the perfect. What a concept. It says a lot about the trust God has in His creation, doesn't it?

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by philjones

You have misquoted the Word Bro. Cooper. That verse in James actually indicates two categories... Every good gift AND every perfect gift is from above...

Coop,

Please consider that God knew every preachers character, personality and flaws when He called him and placed him in the church as the gift to the church. ?

Sorry, I para-phrased. I am not perfect.

Do you not believe that men in the ministry are called of God to the perfect office they fill in their imperfect state

I do not believe all men are Called that hold a position as Pastor.

I believe many are called to preach, But not to Pastor.

Let a pastor, pastor but maybe not preach. Let a teacher, teach but not pastor.

Let the five fold ministers be in subjection and work as one.

Not a single pastor work as five.

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

One doesn't often find apostles & prophets in many UPC circles these days.

Who are some of the apostles & prophets that you have speak when the Spirit leads?

D4T,

I am late to the party.. I apologize!

While I understand that there are men who seem to fill a particular office in the 5 fold ministry, I am of the opinion that every minister should, at various times, be used in all 5 offices of the five fold ministry as the need of the body, the church, dictates. Every minister should be apt to teach, to pastor, to evangelize, to prophesy, and to operate as an apostle or establishmentarian (just for AtlantaBishop)

What is your opinion on my view?

[COOPER]

Jeremiah 2:8
The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.
Jeremiah 2:7-9 (in Context) Jeremiah 2 (Whole Chapter)
Jeremiah 3:15
And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.
Jeremiah 3:14-16 (in Context) Jeremiah 3 (Whole Chapter)
Jeremiah 10:21
For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.
Jeremiah 10:20-22 (in Context) Jeremiah 10 (Whole Chapter)
Jeremiah 12:10
Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.
Jeremiah 12:9-11 (in Context) Jeremiah 12 (Whole Chapter)
Jeremiah 17:16
As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day; thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right before thee.
Jeremiah 17:15-17 (in Context) Jeremiah 17 (Whole Chapter)
Jeremiah 22:22
The wind shall eat up all thy pastors, and thy lovers shall go into captivity: surely then shalt thou be ashamed and confounded for all thy wickedness.
Jeremiah 22:21-23 (in Context) Jeremiah 22 (Whole Chapter)
Jeremiah 23:1
Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 23:1-3 (in Context) Jeremiah 23 (Whole Chapter)
Jeremiah 23:2
Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 23:1-3 (in Context) Jeremiah 23 (Whole Chapter)
Ephesians 4:11
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Ephesians 4:10-12 (in Context) Ephesians 4 (Whole Chapter)