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06-29-2015, 01:56 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 40,299
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Re: Effective evangelists?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
Here is what I see Paul saying in the passage...
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all(everyone)spake with tongues but rather that ye(everyone) prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.....
9 So likewise ye,(everyone) except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12 Even so ye(everyone), forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.....
31 For ye may all(everyone) prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted....
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy(everyone), and forbid not to speak with tongues(all of you must speak in tongues also).
Everytime the word "ye" is used, it means ALL of them.
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Sean, you said that we don't need commentary? So why are you adding to the Elizabethan KJV Bible? 
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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06-29-2015, 02:01 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 23,543
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Re: Effective evangelists?
Seems to me that the 5 fold ministry these days is very exclusive and are trying to "protect" their turf from "laymen" desiring to be considered part of this "exclusive" group.
I am a person that "trains" folks(rookies with passion) how to teach the Bible, not just me teach it only.
I "train" folks(rookies with passion) to expertly present themselves and the basic doctrines. As they find folks getting saved through their "teaching" ministry, they are called by God into the 5 fold ministry.(The gift reveals the office)
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06-29-2015, 02:03 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 23,543
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Re: Effective evangelists?
Benincasa, no more arguing KJV okay?
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06-29-2015, 02:06 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 40,299
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Re: Effective evangelists?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
Benincasa, no more arguing KJV okay?
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Sean, you made the comments about ministers who read Greek. Just wanting you to clarify your position. 
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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06-29-2015, 02:08 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 40,299
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Re: Effective evangelists?
Sean, since my wife was raised Greek, was taught Greek growing up her entire life. Can she translate the Bible?
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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06-29-2015, 02:09 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 23,543
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Re: Effective evangelists?
To Aaron to let him see my point of view....we already blasted this thread enough yesterday. Please read what I told him and I will wait for his reply....thanks.
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06-29-2015, 02:10 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 23,543
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Re: Effective evangelists?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
Sean, since my wife was raised Greek, was taught Greek growing up her entire life. Can she translate the Bible? |
Sure, why not...we can call it the Benincasa Bible!
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06-29-2015, 02:10 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 40,299
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Re: Effective evangelists?
Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul
Sean,
It was Paul, and not a modern author of an interlinear who didn't use any Koine Greek definite article.
He's the one who wrote καὶ πνεύματα προφητῶν προφήταις ὑποτάσσεται..., which transliterated into English alphabets reads kai pneumata propheton prophetais hypotassetai....
Of those five words, none of them are definite articles, corresponding to our English "the", in the Koine Greek (there are 24 different forms of definite articles in Koine Greek, none of which are present in Paul's assertion in 1 Corinthians). This means that by default, the nouns "spirits" and "prophets" are indefinite, or would have, in English, either an "a" in front of them, or no article at all, hence why reading and translating the into the text is a mistake, King James Version or not.
And since it's obvious that Paul is saying that not ALL are apostles and not ALL are prophets in 1 Corinthians 12:29, then two chapters later when he writes about the whole assembly having a chance to prophesy, it must mean that while all may prophesy, and in that moment of use, fulfill the function of a prophet (i.e. a mouthpiece for the Lord) it doesn't mean that they are all of them prophets as far as the five-fold ministry is concerned.
Otherwise every single Spirit filled saint of God is automatically a prophet the moment they spoke in tongues and prophesied according to Joel 2:28 and Acts 2:17. |
bump
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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06-29-2015, 02:13 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 23,543
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Re: Effective evangelists?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
Aaron, are you saying the KJV is inaccurate also? If so, then we cannot ever agree. I believe these ancient translators truly knew what the Greek to English translation should be...every word of it! The "and" or "if" or "the" etc. is irrelevant to the meaning of what the passage is telling us. It(italicized words) have been carefully placed there to help us understand the Greek to English translation, By ANCIENT men in 1611, that understood this Greek language far better than we could every understand it.
If you would rather bank on new Greek translations to "really see" what the KJV translators "missed"...thats your thing, I wont try to change you.(remove all of the italicized words and come to your own conclusions of the meaning of a passage)
As for prophecying...Paul CONCLUDES with saying..."covet to prophecy"...to who?...The Whole Church, or just a couple of saints?.....
Here is what you guys think Paul is saying in this passage...
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all(everyone)spake with tongues but rather that ye(a few) prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.....
9 So likewise ye,(some of you) except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12 Even so ye(some of you), forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.....
31 For ye may all(a few saints) prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted....
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy(a few of you), and forbid not to speak with tongues(all of you must speak in tongues).
You are looking for ways to EXCLUDE folks from being prodded by Paul to COVET to prophecy, by telling us the above point of view is accurate, and if that does not work, you tell them that the BIBLE is worded wrong!!!
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06-29-2015, 02:13 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 23,543
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Re: Effective evangelists?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
Here is what I see Paul saying in the passage...
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all(everyone)spake with tongues but rather that ye(everyone) prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.....
9 So likewise ye,(everyone) except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12 Even so ye(everyone), forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.....
31 For ye may all(everyone) prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted....
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy(everyone), and forbid not to speak with tongues(all of you must speak in tongues also).
Everytime the word "ye" is used, it means ALL of them.
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