Modesty as described by the General Youth Division

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by noeticknight

Solomon was an anomaly, however, you are correct. His relationship with God enabled him to possess great wisdom and understanding. This of course, was predicated on his "heart position" with God. God saw his humility, and honored him with majesty.

With that said, Every human body is essentially wired the same. Physically, the heart pumps the blood, and the brain handles the cognitive duties. Some of us operate in reverse in the spiritual sense. They think with their heart, and the mental faculties are just a means to keep them functioning after the fact. I think that is the point I was getting at, I think...

Yep, and without godly wisdom, it's a pretty pitiful process, even at its best.

Personally, I'd rather take a matter to a simpleton who consulted God, than an Ivy League professor who didn't. Best of all, take a matter to God myself. Now, whether He speaks an answer to me, or shows me an answer in the Word or even in a word from a friend--that doesn't change the fact that He's the source of the answer.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by noeticknight

Solomon was an anomaly, however, you are correct. His relationship with God enabled him to possess great wisdom and understanding. This of course, was predicated on his "heart position" with God. God saw his humility, and honored him with majesty.

With that said, Every human body is essentially wired the same. Physically, the heart pumps the blood, and the brain handles the cognitive duties. Some of us operate in reverse in the spiritual sense. They think with their heart, and the mental faculties are just a means to keep them functioning after the fact. I think that is the point I was getting at, I think...

I know some people like this. It is actually frustrating to talk to them because they say things like "...and then I came into the kitchen and I asked the Lord what I should have for breakfast....". Yes, it DOES get that bad.
Of course the individual who said such things was also a Buddhist and new ager before finding Christianity. The sad thing is is that she could fall back into either of those two things just as easily as she "fell" into Christianity.

[Scott Hutchinson]

I'm certainly for modesty,and I hate extreme legalism,and extreme liberality,but clothing does not a Christian make.We should not carry ourselves in a manner that does not glorify Christ.We should be known for manifesting the fruit of the Spirit,loving our neighbor as ourselves,etc,etc,one can be modest on the outside but dirty inwardly.
If we walk after the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
Modesty is important,but there is more to our indentity as children of God,than our clothing.

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Yep, and without godly wisdom, it's a pretty pitiful process, even at its best.

Personally, I'd rather take a matter to a simpleton who consulted God, than an Ivy League professor who didn't. Best of all, take a matter to God myself. Now, whether He speaks an answer to me, or shows me an answer in the Word or even in a word from a friend--that doesn't change the fact that He's the source of the answer.

Why dichotomize wisdom? Isn't God able to use anybody, doesn't he include even those who don't recognize Him? (Luke 16:8) I don't take the route of downplaying the genius in others, because quite frankly, it is the reflection of God Himself. Anything good, anything worthy, anything beautiful, anything wonderful that the human race is capable of producing, is a testament to our Creator's divine impartation of His wisdom and His genius. I don't begrudge any man his talent, whether or not he acknowledges the source. And most certainly, we all benefit from the work and toil of others, even if some choose to discriminate between "faith" talent and "worldy" talent.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by noeticknight

I'm certainly not forcing a decision between the two, if that's what you mean. I've seen it both ways, people too "learned" to pick up the Good Book, and people too "spiritual" to pick up "Two Treatises of Government." I find the latter more hypocritical though. They go to the hospital, but usually don't inquire about the good doc's faith before receiving service. They down talk psychiatrists, but don't consider that modern Christian counseling is built upon the foundation of secular research. They benefit from "worldly wisdom," including the latest technology that human engineering can afford, but fail to attribute credit deserved where credit is due. Of course, all glory belongs to God, but I have to believe even he must find it amusing that some deny the gifts he has given us.


Prayer is vital, but "listening" to His Word is just as important. As someone once said, "...sometimes you just have to shut up and let God talk back to you."

Excellent. Then we agree!

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I know some people like this. It is actually frustrating to talk to them because they say things like "...and then I came into the kitchen and I asked the Lord what I should have for breakfast....". Yes, it DOES get that bad.
Of course the individual who said such things was also a Buddhist and new ager before finding Christianity. The sad thing is is that she could fall back into either of those two things just as easily as she "fell" into Christianity.

This is why many people of the 20th Century bought into Mr. von Osten's trick that his horse, Hans, could do math problems and understand human language. They forgot the principle of parsimony.

There are degrees of open-mindedness, that's for sure. And on the lower end, it's these type of folk who reinforce their own ignorance time and time again. Like you said, if a person asks an alien life force what to eat for breakfast, and an egg falls out of the refrigerator, "it must have been aliens communicating to me!" However, if nothing happens when opening the refrigerator, "well, aliens most certainly still exist, but they're probably eating their own breakfast right about now."

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by noeticknight

This is why many people of the 20th Century bought into Mr. von Osten's trick that his horse, Hans, could do math problems and understand human language. They forgot the principle of parsimony.

There are degrees of open-mindedness, that's for sure. And on the lower end, it's these type of folk who reinforce their own ignorance time and time again. Like you said, if a person asks an alien life force what to eat for breakfast, and an egg falls out of the refrigerator, "it must have been aliens communicating to me!" However, if nothing happens when opening the refrigerator, "well, aliens most certainly still exist, but they're probably eating their own breakfast right about now."

They just don't fall for talking horses, they also fall for the likes of John Edwards, Dennis Lee, any number of MLM or pyramid schemes, and weird christian cult offshoots.




Oh, and magic hair!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I know some people like this. It is actually frustrating to talk to them because they say things like "...and then I came into the kitchen and I asked the Lord what I should have for breakfast....". Yes, it DOES get that bad.
Of course the individual who said such things was also a Buddhist and new ager before finding Christianity. The sad thing is is that she could fall back into either of those two things just as easily as she "fell" into Christianity.

I'm going to try that tomorrow. But, I anticipate He will say, "Are you kidding me? You have to ask me what to eat? Eat oatmeal like you do every morning. Good grief!"

Seriously, one day I was pouring a cup of coffee and the thought came to me that it interferes with your iron intake. I checked on-line and found out that when your iron intake is down, it interferes with your calcium intake. I wouldn't have thought of that on my own so even without always praying about everything, God takes care of us.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by noeticknight

Why dichotomize wisdom? Isn't God able to use anybody, doesn't he include even those who don't recognize Him? (Luke 16:8) I don't take the route of downplaying the genius in others, because quite frankly, it is the reflection of God Himself. Anything good, anything worthy, anything beautiful, anything wonderful that the human race is capable of producing, is a testament to our Creator's divine impartation of His wisdom and His genius. I don't begrudge any man his talent, whether or not he acknowledges the source. And most certainly, we all benefit from the work and toil of others, even if some choose to discriminate between "faith" talent and "worldy" talent.

I appreciate the intelligence that God gives a goose, and recognize it as such. However, I certainly prefer the counsel of godly people above ANY worldly wisdom.

And apparently I'm not the only one who thinks its wise to "discriminate:"

Psalm 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Psalm 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

I read secular books, watch secular videos, look at secular publications, and I can derive the good and toss out the bad with the best of them. However, if I have a real problem, a real situation, a real hard circumstance in my life that needs tending to, and I'm not sure what to do about it? I will most definitely go to God in prayer first and foremost, and usually to His Word in tandem with that. Third on my list would be to seek godly counsel--from my husband, my mother, my sisters, my pastor, my friends. And last on my list would be from secular sources (if at all), and from people whose opinions might be educated.

Proverbs 2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

Psalm 121:2 My help cometh from the LORD, which made heaven and earth.

There is a definite difference between, and yes, a need to "dichotomize" the godly from worldly. Worldly knowledge can be greatly beneficial, and I have no particular bone to pick with it. I just chalk it up as inferior to godly counsel across the board, and rightfully so.

[Jeffrey]

And a godly person will not necessarily be academically bereft. As a matter of fact, as stewards over what God has given us, a godly person will seize the opportunity to learn, delight in the learning, and glorify God by the learning.

It is a mistake to assume there is an ultimatum: ignorance or godliness.

A godly person, well-intentioned but ignorant as dirt may show good Christian character and love Jesus, but maybe not always the best person to give directions. Find another godly person that is not so absorbed in the heavens that they are of no earthly good