Did you make a choice to be heterosexual? No, you didn't. That was something that developed during your childhood. You don't have to believe it, but it's true.
Think about it. You didn't suddenly think one day, "I think I'll prefer a girl for a mate." No, but instead, throughout your childhood, you chased girls around the playground, stole a quick kiss when the teacher or mom wasn't looking, and went out on dates as a teen.
Sexuality develops during childhood.
That being said, I also believe that in the case of homosexuality, there are people who make that choice out of curiosity or whatever. I don't believe that to be the case with many, or should I say most, homosexuals.
HeavenlyOne! We actually have found something BOTH of us can agree on. I realize this doesn't change your argument but I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who acknowledges this fact.
I don't know if you are married, have kids, grandkids, or what. If you do, may I ask, Did you chose to be attracted to your wife? Did you chose to fall in love with your wife? The choices you make regarding your wife and kids (again, assuming they exist) is influenced by your unchosen love and natural affection for them.
On a more specific and less philosophical level, did you chose your stature?; your foot size? your hairline? None of us have directly chosen any of these attributes YET we make decisions based on their naturally progressive existence (i.e., what kind of clothes and shoes to buy, what kind of hair products to use, etc.).
So it is with orientation. It is a naturally developing, God-given, human experience that is not determined by choice. What we as humans do choose, however, is how to physically respond to our natural psychological and emotional development.
Brad, I'll play along here and agree that you were born to be homosexual. Here is your problem....we were all born with the predisposition to sin. We are sinners from birth.
That said, do we excuse people from sinning because we were born that way?
That would become a problem, because then we wouldn't need the legal system to judge folks who commit crimes. One sin isn't worse than another in the eyes of God, and since He is the judge, you can't complain if someone wants to come into your house and rip you off after cutting your throat.
After all, they were born that way.
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You cannot make a claim that homosexual orientation is not "naturally developing" unless you can prove that heterosexual orientation IS naturally developing and that homosexual orientation is not.
Since "naturally developing" means that which develops the majority of the time and is normative for the species, it is self-evident simply by observing the species that heterosexual orientation is naturally developing and that all other orientations (because they are not normative for the species and do not develop the majority of the time) are aberrations.
You cannot make a claim that homosexual orientation is not "naturally developing" unless you can prove that heterosexual orientation IS naturally developing and that homosexual orientation is not.
That's funny. You can make claims without proof but you tell someone else they can't make claims without proof.
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Genetic specifically refers to the presence of genes. There is no evidence of a specific "sexual orientation" gene or other evidence of something existing in the person from the womb that causes one to develop a sexual orientation. Further, "genetic" does not mean "natural." While I realize that many people like to define "natural" as simply "that which occurs in nature," I prefer to equate "natural" with "normal" or "normative," i.e. that which occurs in nature the majority of the time and is normative for a particular species.
It has been said that there is a "genetic predisposition" toward breast cancer in certain women. However, just because there may be a genetic predisposition doesn't automatically mean the woman is going to develop breast cancer. So also, even if it can be shown that there is a "genetic predisposition" toward homosexuality doesn't mean one is automatically going to become homosexual.
HeavenlyOne! We actually have found something BOTH of us can agree on. I realize this doesn't change your argument but I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who acknowledges this fact.
So you now agree that sexuality develops during childhood?
Cause that was not only stated in my post you agreed with, but it was the point of my post.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
No, thoughts and lusts are what you choose to do with the autonomic physiological and emotional response. The attraction occurs first, the thoughts, lusts and actions follow.
It's not really worth debating but I can tell you that you would be hard-pressed to find anyone in the scientific community (including psychologists, physicians, physiologists, etc.) who will affirm that thoughts and lusts are autonomic responses. At the MOST, there are areas of the brain that may react to thoughts and lusts; however, their actual cause/source is unknown.
It's not really worth debating but I can tell you that you would be hard-pressed to find anyone in the scientific community (including psychologists, physicians, physiologists, etc.) who will affirm that thoughts and lusts are autonomic responses. At the MOST, there are areas of the brain that may react to thoughts and lusts; however, their actual cause/source is unknown.
And I'm not saying they're autonomic responses, I'm saying they occur after the autonomic response and are entirely chosen.
So you now agree that sexuality develops during childhood?
Cause that was not only stated in my post you agreed with, but it was the point of my post.
I agree it develops during childhood but based on a genetics (i.e. puberty takes place during adolesence but is genetically predetermined). We may vary a bit on our specifics but the truth is that orientation is not a choice. I think THAT is where we are in agreement (even if your view is that only heterosexual orientation is not a choice). Either way, we have some commonality.
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