The catching away

[Godsdrummer]

To all

I just love the way we throw the word truth around as if we all have it figured out. There is only one truth and that is Jesus Christ and him crucified. It is hard to change what we have been taught I know it took me years. I do want to say this Easter all the verses you have quoted about the coming of the Lord were all writen before 70ad. Hmm The coming of the lord in judgement on those that had forsaken him in those days. The judgment was to those that crucified. Of course one can try to make it fit what they want to for they have for centeries and they will still be making it fit in the next generations to come. Their will always be governments rise that will give people the idea that this is the time prophecied. they have done it down thru history. this should give one the inclining that one has missed the boat...

[shag]

Originally Posted by shag

Matt.21:33 “Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?” 41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”
42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
The stone which the builders rejecte Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the LORD’s doing,And it is marvelous in our eyes’? (Also see:Acts4:11)

43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”
45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them


Matt. 23:31 "Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.



Jesus took the Kingdom from them, and gave it to another bearing fruit of it, Jew, Gentile..Samaritin.. etc. All can get in the Kingdom, thru the "way of the cross", and thru His name. When those that killed the prophets that Jesus sent, and killed Him, and chose not to repent, they THEY later took the fall/wrath for their fathers doing the same(Matt. 23:31-35). It was called "a coming" (in Matt. 21:40) of the owner of the vineyard, as being connected with them being destroyed ,losing the Kingdom, to the NT Kingdom (the True Israel of God). The Kigdom was taken from them long ago, along with the Temple they were so proud of (Matt. 24:2).

(Thats why John came preaching "REPENT the kingdom is at hand!, and "who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?!!)

(MHO)

Originally Posted by easter

Great post

Thanks.

[easter]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

To all

I just love the way we throw the word truth around as if we all have it figured out. There is only one truth and that is Jesus Christ and him crucified. It is hard to change what we have been taught I know it took me years. I do want to say this Easter all the verses you have quoted about the coming of the Lord were all writen before 70ad. Hmm The coming of the lord in judgement on those that had forsaken him in those days. The judgment was to those that crucified. Of course one can try to make it fit what they want to for they have for centeries and they will still be making it fit in the next generations to come. Their will always be governments rise that will give people the idea that this is the time prophecied. they have done it down thru history. this should give one the inclining that one has missed the boat...

Ok "Godsdrummer" show me how the Lord's day was 70 AD.Surely someone who must believed the way I do and change must have seen something in the scripture to do such a change.
Show me!

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by easter

Ok "Godsdrummer" show me how the Lord's day was 70 AD.Surely someone who must believed the way I do and change must have seen something in the scripture to do such a change.
Show me!

GladlyEaster
Give me a couple of days as thanksgiving is here and all my kids and grandkids are going to arrive today. Also I am getting used to a new computer so I have had to load my bible program and all on the new computer. But let me start with this. I gave you the web site address but I will give it to you again. http://www.rightlydividingtheword.com/ check out the bible study Daniels 70 weeks. By Larry Smith. 8 years ago I read this for the first time, and for the first time I could understand what the passage in Daniel ment. Athough it went against everything I believed ! Sister I read it again studied it from every direction, I spoke with others I prayed and prayed somemore. I began to read and study this to prove it wrong. It went agianst all I believed. It came down to the fact for me that I accepted what my first impression was. IT WAS RIGHT AND WHAT I HAD BEEN TAUGHT WAS WRONG. Now if Daniels 70 weeks have all been fulfilled in Christ day. This changes everything, I once beleived in prophecy. So you see this has taken me several years for some it does not take that long I am just very careful. The point I want to make is just read the study, me I am not trying to get you to change on my say so or anyone else, but question everything as we are instructed to do.
Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

[easter]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

GladlyEaster
Give me a couple of days as thanksgiving is here and all my kids and grandkids are going to arrive today. Also I am getting used to a new computer so I have had to load my bible program and all on the new computer. But let me start with this. I gave you the web site address but I will give it to you again. http://www.rightlydividingtheword.com/ check out the bible study Daniels 70 weeks. By Larry Smith. 8 years ago I read this for the first time, and for the first time I could understand what the passage in Daniel ment. Athough it went against everything I believed ! Sister I read it again studied it from every direction, I spoke with others I prayed and prayed somemore. I began to read and study this to prove it wrong. It went agianst all I believed. It came down to the fact for me that I accepted what my first impression was. IT WAS RIGHT AND WHAT I HAD BEEN TAUGHT WAS WRONG. Now if Daniels 70 weeks have all been fulfilled in Christ day. This changes everything, I once beleived in prophecy. So you see this has taken me several years for some it does not take that long I am just very careful. The point I want to make is just read the study, me I am not trying to get you to change on my say so or anyone else, but question everything as we are instructed to do.
Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Do you believe in the Rapture?

[mfblume]

DAY OF THE LORD:

Zechariah 14:1-2 KJV Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. (2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

This was AD70 destruction of Jerusalem when the temple was leveled with the rest of the city. Jesus said that would occur in the generation alive in His day.

Matthew 23:35-38 KJV That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. (36) Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. (37) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! (38) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Originally Posted by mfblume

My take on it is as follows. The Zechariah prophecies about the Lord's coming and his feet on the mount of Olives is spiritually significant, not literally understood. It's similar to the prophetic and very poetic figurative words of David 1in 2 Sam 22. Prophetic language is like that. The same prophecy by Zechariah stated that rivers of living water would flow from the mountain in Jerusalem. That is the HOLY GHOST!

Zechariah 14:8 KJV And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

The MOUNTAIN refers to the KINGDOM of God. Jerusalem was where the Holy Ghost was first outpoured.

And all those few chapters of Zechariah that mention THAT DAY are speaking of the same DAY that we read here:

Zechariah 12:10-11 KJV And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (11) In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

John 19:34-37 KJV But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. (35) And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. (36) For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. (37) And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

This was fulfilled in the period of the CROSS. And that DAY was actually a period of time, or the generation, of the time of the cross. And that same day involves destruction of Jerusalem, 40 years (that same generation) later.

Most people who read these prophecies do not correlate all the necessary scriptures that correspond to it, like the rivers of living water in John 7:37-39.

Joel 2:1 KJV Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

IT WAS NIGH AT HAND. Not thousands of years later in our future yet unfulfilled.


THE DAY OF THE LORD is what Joel 2 was talking about.

And amongst all the woes and calamities which we claim were speaking about the destruction of Jerusalem that culminated in AD70, we read these words:

Joel 2:28-32 KJV And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: (29) And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. (30) And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. (31) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. (32) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Peter directly quoted this chapter dealing with the day of the Lord and said it was IN HIS DAY 2,000 years ago that this was fulfilled.

Acts 2:16-21 KJV But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; (17) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: (18) And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: (19) And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: (20) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: (21) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Peter said what was occurring in Acts 2 was what Joel spoke about, and Peter said those last days were occurring in Acts 2! He said "THIS (what was happening in Acts 2) is THAT (what Joel said would occur in the last days)".

How could Peter say Joel was being fulfilled in Acts 2, and Joel said the last days will have these events occur if Peter was not in the last days?

And what are the LAST DAYS referring to? Last days of earth? Can't be. It was last days of the previous age of Temple activity and law. Law was fulfilled on the cross, and was in its last days of existence only to be ended outwardly in AD70.

Peter said the last days were occurring in Acts 2. Otherwise he could not point to Joel 2 and say Acts 2's events were what Joel said would occur in the last days.

And Joel 2 is totally talking about the DAY OF THE LORD. This fits with Zechariah 12 and John where John said Zech 12's words about piercing Jesus were fulfilled when Jesus was crucified.

And Peter went on to say that they had to save themselves from THAT UNTOWARD GENERATION. Over and over again Jesus aid that generation would see the destruction of their city, and a generation is 40 years or so. 40 years later the destruction of Joel 2 and Zechariah came to pass in Jerusalem being destroyed. That same generation would see pillars of smoke and clouds that Joel mentioned.

A person cannot take parts of Joel and Zech and say it is future when the NEW TESTAMENT ITSELF said those events were fulfilled in Jesus' and the apostles' day.

[NotforSale]

[QUOTE=mfblume;838916]NFS,

You of all people should realize it is an act of concern and love to inform people to not be closed minded and shut things down simply because they never heard them before. If we did not care, we would say nothing and let folks believe what they do. This is not about winning a debate. It is about truth. And to shut down one's mind against an idea without having heard it out is simply something that should be addressed.

In fact, the fighting has been something we've tried expelling, for there is no need to holler at folks using their last name like a drill sergeant, or to tell people they are deceived. We've been pushing for this lack of fighting the most here lately and to keep things civil.

I have complimented Easter on her desire to know truth and want truth several times.

This is what I meant when I called out your "Smoke and Mirrors". You cover yourself as being ethical when challenged, while calling people you have never met, Nutcases, on another thread. You also were offended when I called you Brother, berating me because I disagreed with you.

Also, NFS, you personally mocked me several times with icons of derision by the way you used them. Love?

I did say "We" in my post. I am not excluded from getting upset or angry when opinions clash. I have said things on this Forum I've felt bad about, and I apologize for that. I was noticing some tempers flaring on this thread and felt led to post 1 Corinthians 13.

Why can't you just amen something? You have to read into everybody's idea and prove your point.

You have access to the same icons, and the use of them can be fun, and can even break the ice of tension that builds.

Sorry, Brother, if my mocking or words have offended you.

Still love ya, Bro

[mfblume]

NFS, you never offended me. Don't worry about it.

And I never used intentional smoke and mirrors with you. And I am trying to help things stay civil and give my opinion about an issue. It IS a discussion forum.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by mfblume

NFS, you never offended me. Don't worry about it.

And I never used intentional smoke and mirrors with you. And I am trying to help things stay civil and give my opinion about an issue. It IS a discussion forum.

You've made my day with this post.....

Thanks

[easter]

Truth is Bro.Biume you and I have clashed and you and I have neither glorified or honor the Father by our disagreement in God's very word.I suppose one needs to humble themselves to look at a teaching in the word.We have edified nothing with this on going dispute.
I believe I'll ask you to pardon me as I will you.This arguing is ridiculous.I will take a look at this and if I still disagree,I still disagree but there is no point in arguing.
NotForSale is right,Jesus told us to Love one another.