To me, my experience is proof. I live my life based on my experiences, and my viewpoint of God is colored by my experiences.
The funny thing about experiential proof is that it only convinces oneself.
And experience, just like those feelings "deep inside" and that still, small voice, can "prove" anything. Literally. But I have to admit, you can't really argue with it. If it works for you, it works. End of story. And I say that about everyone, including Pentecostals. (I might try to help them understand whether it really is working or not, but that's another matter. )
Now, some people don't like the idea that people are different, and there is no one size fits all, when it comes to religion. If their experience works for them, they think it should work for everyone. Weird.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
And experience, just like those feelings "deep inside" and that still, small voice, can "prove" anything. Literally. But I have to admit, you can't really argue with it. If it works for you, it works. End of story. And I say that about everyone, including Pentecostals. (I might try to help them understand whether it really is working or not, but that's another matter. )
Now, some people don't like the idea that people are different, and there is no one size fits all, when it comes to religion. If their experience works for them, they think it should work for everyone. Weird.
On the other hand, they have a point. According to what they say the believe, it should work for everyone. Of course, it depends on what it means to say it "works", but we can look at the claims to get an idea of that. For one thing, they say God does things for them -- miracles. Well, that one's obvious: it doesn't work for everyone. And very few even claim that it always works when they want it to.
There is supposed to be peace and joy. Some have it, some don't. Or rather, eveyone has this to a different degree, ranging from near constant peace and joy, over to near constant despair (sometimes due to a lack of miracles and other promised blessings). I suppose we could say this works for everyone, to a degree.
Let's consider salvation itself. Does that always work, for everyone who puts it to the test? We don't know. Nobody will know until the final judgment. Cross fingers.
How about the promise that the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth? That one's also easy to determine. It is very clear that, if He leads anyone into anything, He either has a low success rate or, for whatever reason, He leads different people into wildly different truths. Oh yes, there is another possibility: some people say they are seeking earnestly for the truth, but really aren't. For whatever reason, they want to be wrong. Weird, but OK.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
How about the promise that the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth? That one's also easy to determine. It is very clear that, if He leads anyone into anything, He either has a low success rate or, for whatever reason, He leads different people into wildly different truths. Oh yes, there is another possibility: some people say they are seeking earnestly for the truth, but really aren't. For whatever reason, they want to be wrong. Weird, but OK.
Yes, but there is a simple answer to that: just keep asking. Over and over and over and over, until you get the right answer. Yes, it seems that God wants us to keep bugging him, and when we have finally bugged him enough (however that much may be, and, as with a lot of things, it varies from person to person), he will give us the truth.
For example, Trinitarians think they have the truth, but they just haven't asked enough. If they keep going, they'll get it, eventually.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
On the other hand, they have a point. According to what they say the believe, it should work for everyone. Of course, it depends on what it means to say it "works", but we can look at the claims to get an idea of that. For one thing, they say God does things for them -- miracles. Well, that one's obvious: it doesn't work for everyone. And very few even claim that it always works when they want it to.
There is supposed to be peace and joy. Some have it, some don't. Or rather, eveyone has this to a different degree, ranging from near constant peace and joy, over to near constant despair (sometimes due to a lack of miracles and other promised blessings). I suppose we could say this works for everyone, to a degree.
Let's consider salvation itself. Does that always work, for everyone who puts it to the test? We don't know. Nobody will know until the final judgment. Cross fingers.
How about the promise that the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth? That one's also easy to determine. It is very clear that, if He leads anyone into anything, He either has a low success rate or, for whatever reason, He leads different people into wildly different truths. Oh yes, there is another possibility: some people say they are seeking earnestly for the truth, but really aren't. For whatever reason, they want to be wrong. Weird, but OK.
I don't know. I always say that were religion goes wrong is when someone takes something that God tells them, and turns it into a heaven or hell rule for all mankind.
Perhaps I am a bit relativistic, but I don't believe it's a one size fits all kind of thing.
I don't know. I always say that were religion goes wrong is when someone takes something that God tells them, and turns it into a heaven or hell rule for all mankind.
Perhaps I am a bit relativistic, but I don't believe it's a one size fits all kind of thing.
Even if it was thousands of years ago?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
LOL, yes. I guess I don't think it matters whether it was a million years ago or 5 minutes ago.
We are all individuals, with varying experiences and upbringing. We all view the world through a different filter. Why do we expect some sort of cookie cutter interaction with God?
LOL, yes. I guess I don't think it matters whether it was a million years ago or 5 minutes ago.
We are all individuals, with varying experiences and upbringing. We all view the world through a different filter. Why do we expect some sort of cookie cutter interaction with God?
(Thanks for posting, but don't you wish some other viewpoints would show up? I do!)
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I think you and I are using different meanings of the word "clear"!
To me, something is clear if everyone who reads it understands just what was meant by the writer. Two people will not get two different things out of it.
Timmy I have been away for a looong time, so just reading your "discussion." LOL I soooo, sooooo, soooooo, agree with you!
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