Rockets hitting Jerusalem

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Anyway, you are saying that Ishmael's descendents are not the Arabs of today.

No..once again we are NOT NOT NOT NOT discussing Ishmael's descendents. We have been discussing this idea of a religion of people who range from Arabs to Persians and Chinese as Ishmael's SPIRITUAL descendents

When you leave out that word, as you have several times, you change the discussion.

Not "Ishmael's descendents"

We are discussing the idea of "the SPIRITUAL DESCENDENTS of Ishmael"

We are not and have not been discussing His genetic descendents.

We discussed this before. Spiritual descendents, not genetic descendents

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by shazeep

a good question--but really, your heart should be able to answer it sans any 'facts.'

"Actually my point of view is that innocent people are dying and we need to find a way to have peace there..."

and yet we know from Scripture that no one is innocent. .

You are obfuscating. You knew before hand this is a political discussion. See the top? It says "Politics Talk"

"innocent" refers to then not being combatants who are shooting at the Israelis.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sister you should really do some background checking on these stories. When you do you will find they are created by opportunists who just pipe what music that will get people to dance.

Israel is fighting for the world? Hamas is trying to turn the planet into a Islamic caliphate? While these comments make some people swoon, the bigger picture is propaganda to keep a war machine lubed.

The other day I was having a conversation with a journalist friend of mine and asked what was the final solution? He spent most of his career in the Middle East, and he said sooner or later there will be a mushroom cloud over Tel Aviv. Now, the reason he said that, is because since Israel's inception there has been bad blood between the Zionist European settlers who first arrived, and their Arab hosts. 66 years have passed since Israel was declared a nation in 1948, and for 66 years it has gotten bad to worse.

You have young children? I have a ten year old and a thirteen year old, I was asked how would I feel if my house was bombed and I dug my ten year old's broken body out of the rubble? I'm no political guy, I'm no partisan, I'm just typical rank and file Palestinian who is trying to feed my kids, and keep a roof over their heads. But now I'm digging frantically with my wife to get my daughters out from under broken concrete and twisted mangled rebar, I'm not thinking of Jihad, never did, I'm trying to live a 9-5, doing whatever a rank and file Palestinian man does. I grab my daughter's arm, her shoulder, but she is dead.

Now, this isn't just happening today over in Gaza, but happened back also in 2008. It has also happened in the West Bank in times past. So, what does John Q Palestinian do after his life is banged up over the death of his children, wife, family members? He wants a little pay back? He wants to find the people who did this to him? Yet, if Hamas is hiding in school playgrounds why aren't the parents going after the HAMAS and filleting the hides right off of their green scarfed bodies? No, they look at the people who are sending the bombs. So, then you have some individual who watched his ten year old expire in his arms after being dug out from under a bombed out building, and he gets enough material to build a low level suitcase nuke, then, low, and behold, a mushroom cloud over Tel Aviv.

Listen, both sides need to stop, and we as Christians cannot advocate or defend anyone who would use violence to bring peace.

Israel has a right to defend itself? Not by Jesus' standard, He would tell them to turn the other cheek, love those who are persecuting them.

Well, anyway, it is starting to look like Mosab Hassan Yousef , may not be all that he seems to be.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ne...7#.U9xEH-NdXKg

I also found information on Mr Walid Shoebat that he too is a phony, but that is easy enough to find on the Googlesphere.

Thank you for your post. You'll notice that I didn't comment on the article I posted. Some here will say they think that Walid Shoebat is a wacko. I have no opinion of him. I don't follow his information.

I have to disagree with you on Jesus wanting Israel to turn the other cheek. It would be the same as allowing an illegal to enter my home, rape my daughter and just stand there without shooting him. I'm not going to allow him to leave my house alive. We will defend our family against assault with whatever means is necessary. It is called self-defense.

Yet, if Hamas is hiding in school playgrounds why aren't the parents going after the HAMAS and filleting the hides right off of their green scarfed bodies?

Why is Israel supposed to turn the other cheek when you are asking why the Gaza parents are not filleting Hamas? Doesn't turning the other cheek work both ways.

They can get mad at Israel if they want, but the problem, as I see it, is in their own back yard. Israel doesn't outfit their people with body explosives. And Israel doesn't dig tunnels into Gaza. I think Israel should take back Gaza and ALL the Palestinians should move elsewhere.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sister you should really do some background checking on these stories. When you do you will find they are created by opportunists who just pipe what music that will get people to dance.

Israel is fighting for the world? Hamas is trying to turn the planet into a Islamic caliphate? While these comments make some people swoon, the bigger picture is propaganda to keep a war machine lubed.

The other day I was having a conversation with a journalist friend of mine and asked what was the final solution? He spent most of his career in the Middle East, and he said sooner or later there will be a mushroom cloud over Tel Aviv. Now, the reason he said that, is because since Israel's inception there has been bad blood between the Zionist European settlers who first arrived, and their Arab hosts. 66 years have passed since Israel was declared a nation in 1948, and for 66 years it has gotten bad to worse.

You have young children? I have a ten year old and a thirteen year old, I was asked how would I feel if my house was bombed and I dug my ten year old's broken body out of the rubble? I'm no political guy, I'm no partisan, I'm just typical rank and file Palestinian who is trying to feed my kids, and keep a roof over their heads. But now I'm digging frantically with my wife to get my daughters out from under broken concrete and twisted mangled rebar, I'm not thinking of Jihad, never did, I'm trying to live a 9-5, doing whatever a rank and file Palestinian man does. I grab my daughter's arm, her shoulder, but she is dead.

Now, this isn't just happening today over in Gaza, but happened back also in 2008. It has also happened in the West Bank in times past. So, what does John Q Palestinian do after his life is banged up over the death of his children, wife, family members? He wants a little pay back? He wants to find the people who did this to him? Yet, if Hamas is hiding in school playgrounds why aren't the parents going after the HAMAS and filleting the hides right off of their green scarfed bodies? No, they look at the people who are sending the bombs. So, then you have some individual who watched his ten year old expire in his arms after being dug out from under a bombed out building, and he gets enough material to build a low level suitcase nuke, then, low, and behold, a mushroom cloud over Tel Aviv.

Listen, both sides need to stop, and we as Christians cannot advocate or defend anyone who would use violence to bring peace.

Israel has a right to defend itself? Not by Jesus' standard, He would tell them to turn the other cheek, love those who are persecuting them.

Well, anyway, it is starting to look like Mosab Hassan Yousef , may not be all that he seems to be.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ne...7#.U9xEH-NdXKg

I also found information on Mr Walid Shoebat that he too is a phony, but that is easy enough to find on the Googlesphere.

The "Right to defend itself" refers to Political tones. This is a political discussion discussing political/world events.

Israel, as every nation, has a right to defend it's people from harm.

As for turning the other cheek, I don't believe Jesus took away such a right from governments to protect it's citizens. His words were aimed at those who want to be disciples.

It's talking about personal conduct.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No..once again we are NOT NOT NOT NOT discussing Ishmael's descendents. We have been discussing this idea of a religion of people who range from Arabs to Persians and Chinese as Ishmael's SPIRITUAL descendents

When you leave out that word, as you have several times, you change the discussion.

Not "Ishmael's descendents"

We are discussing the idea of "the SPIRITUAL DESCENDENTS of Ishmael"

We are not and have not been discussing His genetic descendents.

We discussed this before. Spiritual descendents, not genetic descendents

Oh my gosh, you are giving me a headache. I'm going to bed.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Oh my gosh, you are giving me a headache. I'm going to bed.

Welcome to the club.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sister you should really do some background checking on these stories. When you do you will find they are created by opportunists who just pipe what music that will get people to dance.

Well, anyway, it is starting to look like Mosab Hassan Yousef , may not be all that he seems to be.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ne...7#.U9xEH-NdXKg

I also found information on Mr Walid Shoebat that he too is a phony, but that is easy enough to find on the Googlesphere.

I just thought that I would come back, reference this part of your post and tell you that I will contact Mark Levin to see if he can verify this person for us. I am tying up loose ends as I have an August trip planned and may not have an answer until later. Thanks for the heads up.

Again, I am aware of Walid Shoebat, but like Pamela Geller, I don't visit their websites.

And, BTW, I see that Megan Kelly at Kelly File had the guy on tonight. I would be very surprised that she and Mark Levin didn't verify Yousef before interviewing him.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The "Right to defend itself" refers to Political tones. This is a political discussion discussing political/world events.

Israel, as every nation, has a right to defend it's people from harm.

As for turning the other cheek, I don't believe Jesus took away such a right from governments to protect it's citizens. His words were aimed at those who want to be disciples.

It's talking about personal conduct.

I also don't believe Jesus took rights away from any world government its right to defend itself, because it wasn't His focus. Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and Paul's plea for the Christians to pray for their rulers is aimed at living in peace among the world's systems. As Christians we don't involve ourselves in governments vying for power. Almost the same way as we cannot vote for the lesser of two evils because it would still be us supporting evil? Politics and religion is the same as gasoline and water, the two can never mix because they are diametrically opposed to one another. Especially how Christianity is a religion which basic premise is to love those who would hurt you. Jesus preached a Gospel of Love your enemy, therefore messages like that sure make it hard to strategically smart bomb someone's living room while their kids are eating Cap'n Crunch and watching Here Comes Honey Achmed.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Shazeep, Israel doesn't have tunnels running into Gaza to carry terrorist weapons into the community to use against the citizens. Israel's schools don't have the children chanting - "Death to Muslims! Death to Arabs!"

If you think that Israel has no right to use force against an attack, that is just crazy thinking. If Hamas wants peace, they need to STOP digging tunnels!

israel has no right to use force in the attack. This is all blahblahblah.

You must completely reject condemnation, or be completely condemned.

Answering force with force reveals ones premises, which are revealed to be evil here. Until the Spirit is obeyed, chaos will reign. We aren't talking about a war anymore here, anyway, so much as a slaughter. Just look at the differences in available technology between Nato (we'll just call them 'the forces of evil , the ptb), whom israel is a proxy for here, and the ones you are sending all your cashflow to, your petrodollars, to finance the other side. I can lay that all out for you, if you want--but you have google too.

And you do not know what prejudice is cultivated in students in Jewish schools, prolly; i bet they get programmed just like in our public schools. Jews and Arabs don't even go to the same schools, so that alone might help to characterize what the cultural frictions are between them at that age. There is an acknowledged problem among the teens of Orthodox and Hasidic Jews, and rape is a big problem in israel in general. Jews have fringe radicals, too; and that is what is being rep'ed to you as 'news,' the radicals of the other side. We bite like a fish.

Also, while it is obvious that a nation that does not raise its children to be at peace with its neighbors--like in pre 1948 Palestine, for the most part--especially to the point of chanting 'death,' reactions like "just nuke 'em" only demon strate that they are reacting in kind also.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by n david

Stupid and ignorant comment.

...exactly the same spirit from which nuke 'em comes.