All Trinitarians are Lost!!!!!!!!!!!

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I ain't found nowhere either....

I also never said the Father is his own Son

Is the Son His own Father?

[Farfel]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Who teaches that Jesus is a lesser God?

That's what I was wondering.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by rdp

Ho-Hum, typical-worn-out strawman. We do not believe the "Son is His own Father." Besides, being His "own Father" would be better than having "Two-Father's"....One, the supposed 1st person in the Godhead, the other the supposed 3rd person in the Godhead!

Luke 1.35: The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God".

Don't blame me....You did it to yourself !

It's to those seeking salvation, per scripture......

Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation......Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

You're wishing to twist "you will be saved" to "you will stay saved". I'm really not surprised to see you attempting to do that.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by seekerman

It's to those seeking salvation, per scripture......

Here's a little lesson for you on the genesis of the Roman church that you're appealing to:

Beginning chronologically in the epistles, the church at Rome meets us right away. Of course, we have all heard of the supposed "Roman Road to Salvation." While studying recently it stood out to me that Cornelius of Acts 10 is identified as dwelling is "Caeserea" & an officer in "the Italian Regiment" [NKJV].


In fact, the NLT translates the passage as "In Caesarea there lived a Roman army officer named Cornelius..." Acts, in the NLT, was translated by Dr.'s D.A. Carson, William Larkin, & Roger Mohrlang...all renowned professional linguists.


Hence, the gentile church in Rome was planted in Acts 10 when Cornelius' house-hold was water & Spirit baptized in Jesus' Name...speaking in tongues upon receiving the Holy Spirit. The Koine' "Law of Prepositions" employed in this baptismal account is en in the dative case & is defined as, "in the majority of cases with mention of the name, while naming or calling on the name. In many passages it seems to be a formulae" [BAGD; pp. 572-573].


KTDNT, Vol. V, pg. 271: "the most general meaning of en onamati [in (the) name] is 'with invocation of'."


Schaff-Herzog Encycl. of Religous Knowledge, Vol. 1 Pg. 436: "The Greek phrase en to onamati [in the name] means baptism takes place with utterance of the name of Jesus."


You can also see Dr. F.W. Gingrich's Shorter Greek-English Lexicon; pg. 150 for the same corroborating evidence regarding this particular prepositional construct.


Romans 10:9, "that if YOU confess with YOUR mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in YOUR heart that God raised Him from the dead, YOU will be saved" [NKJV]. When we come to this passage, therefore, the 2nd-person-plural pronouns [enlarged & italicized above] is targeting an audience which was planted in Acts Chp. 10.


It is the same principle w/: Corinthians [planted in Acts 18:8; see I Cor. 1:13 & 6:11]; Galatians [planted in Acts 16:6; 18:23; also see Gal. 3:27]; Ephesians [planted in Acts 19:1-6]; Phillipians [planted in Acts 16]; Colossians [a city in Phrygia; planted in Acts 16:6; 18:23; (or arguably) 2:10; see also Col. 2:12]; Thessalonians [planted in Acts 17]; Hebrews [see Chp. 6:2; 10:22]; James [see Chp. 2:7 (Amplified & GK. participle called)]; I Peter [see Chp. 3:20-21].


In each of these letters/epistles to the churches we can either locate the beginning of the church in Acts w/ water & Spirit baptism in Jesus' Name, or directly in the letters themselves.


Not to mention that 2/3 of the NT was written by Paul who had his sins washed away by means of the Name of Jesus being invoked upon him in baptism [Acts 22:16] & who spoke in tongues [I Cor. 14].


Clearly Paul was not anticipating that the churches under his supervision would have a different born-again experience than he did....esp. since he started most of the churches to which he was writing!


Likewise, the church of the Ephesians, which had their beginning in Acts 19:1-6, likewise had the Name of Jesus called upon them in baptism & spoke in tongues upon receiving the Holy Spirit (witnessed by the same Apostle writing to Rome!).


The preposition employed in this baptismal account is eis in the accusative case, denoting motion toward the noun "onama/name." For the sake of time, I will spare us the lengthy quotations from various grammarians which emphatically state that eis in the accusative case denotes, "with mention of the name [BAGD]; profess the name [Thayer]; express mention of the divine name [Robinson]."


The difference in the salvation passages from Acts & the epistles have to do w/ the distinctive nature of the 2nd-person-pronoun translated "you." The "you" of Acts 2:38, as in "be baptized every one of YOU," is addressing the lost. The "you" in Rom. 10 or Eph. 2 is addressing those born-again believers....from Acts!


Hence, to open a letter addressed to those already water & Spirit baptized in Jesus' Name...those who had already spoke in tongues, & apply it to those who have never had this born-again experience is to be guilty of opening someone else's mail...or "Invasion of Privacy!"


Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation......Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Hmmm, guess a person no longer has to repent to be saved since nothing is in this text about repentance!? See what happens when you practice theological segregation as opposed to biblical integration?

The context was dealing with "Israel" (as you yourself referenced...but left out!?) who rejected Christ as the Son of God. Then Paul switches to the second-person-plural pronoun "You"...addressing the born-again believers. Learn to discard your "Reform" lenses when reading your Bible.

Besides:

"Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life" (Rom. 6:3-4).

Funny how some portions of the book of Romans are relative to salvation....but somehow the means by which we "walk in newness of life" (i.e., born-again) is relegated to "works" ??


You're wishing to twist "you will be saved" to "you will stay saved". I'm really not surprised to see you attempting to do that.

Are you denying that Paul's letter was specifically addressed to born-again believers? If so, see his direct address here (Rom. 1.7):

"To all who are in Rome, loved by God and called to be saints..."

"...the patience of God waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being built, in which a few, that is eight souls, were brought safely through water. This water prefigures baptism, which now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the body but the answer of a good conscience to God—by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (I Ptr. 3.20-21).

Be careful not to "twist" it until it doesn't mean what it says !

Sad....You would think folks would be running to the baptismal tank...not draining the water & effectually ripping pages out of the Bible!

Eternity is serious business.

[Old Paths]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Sure.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

That's it?

That's all there is?

No repentance?

No water baptism in Jesus name?

No Holy Ghost experience?

No speaking in tongues?

WOW!

I didn't realize there were Baptist on AFF.....

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Old Paths

That's it?

That's all there is?

No repentance?

No water baptism in Jesus name?

No Holy Ghost experience?

No speaking in tongues?

WOW!

I didn't realize there were Baptist on AFF.....

I'm not Baptist. For starters, I'm not trinitarian and the Baptists I know are trinitarians.

What part of Romans 10:9-10 which promises salvation do you disagree with?

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

[Farfel]

Originally Posted by Old Paths

That's it?

That's all there is?

No repentance?

No water baptism in Jesus name?

No Holy Ghost experience?

No speaking in tongues?

WOW!

I didn't realize there were Baptist on AFF.....

Now, wait a minute. What Baptist believes that you don't have to repent?

[Old Paths]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I'm not Baptist. For starters, I'm not trinitarian and the Baptists I know are trinitarians.

What part of Romans 10:9-10 which promises salvation do you disagree with?

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Oh I totally agree with Rom. 10:9-10.

Love that verse!

But please answer the question...

Is that all their is to salvation?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by rdp

"...the patience of God waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being built, in which a few, that is eight souls, were brought safely through water. This water prefigures baptism, which now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the body but the answer of a good conscience to God—by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (I Ptr. 3.20-21).

Be careful not to "twist" it until it doesn't mean what it says !

Sad....You would think folks would be running to the baptismal tank...not draining the water & effectually ripping pages out of the Bible!

Eternity is serious business.

You believe baptism saves? This should be interesting.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by seekerman

You believe baptism saves? This should be interesting.

Hmm, I simply quote a Bible verse & you automatically shift the argument to what "I Believe"????

I didn't write the vss.....the Apostle Peter did....Under the inspiration of the HS!

What I believe is irrelevant to what the Bible clearly says....So why place the words in my mouth?!

Now, does this verse clearly state that water baptism "also now saves us"?

Yes or no:___________?