Islam vs. Christianity Part 1

[Thomas Trini]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Atheists can have that as well as pagans or Buddhists. But beside that, I am glad for you :-)

That's what I was saying, too. "The rain falls on the just and the unjust." WII should remember this if he was a Baptist (for even a "season").
To ask it again, what has Allah done for you, WII? What has He done for you? even the "infidel" can claim what you did.

[Walks_in_islam]

Question: how do you even know what paganism is if you don't read about it? How do you know you have the one true God if you are unaware of any of the false gods? Merely being religious will not merit you eternal life.

What a silly question. God is God. You pray to Him. We face the Kabaa when we pray. The Kabaa is the symbol for us of a holy place.

Do you actually think that not researching or studying false gods merits or means anything or has some level of intrinsic value to God? Do you think that during prayer to God he cares if you know or spend your time researching the false gods of others? The thought of how little that matters at all is kind of funny prax.

Also, there's a big difference between Christianity and Islam. Every day, you can read about Muslims commiting heinous acts, such as circumcising their own daughters, at home, without any medical knowledge or medicine, killing others (infidels or not) and so much more.

Here we go again. I read more acts about "christians" doing worse than I read about muslims doing so. There is NO, not one, teaching either in the Hadiths or in the Quran about mutilating a baby girl. You say "muslims" do this but Islam does not teach that this is to be done. So……turnabout - I read about a Sunday school teacher stuffing a dead baby in a suitcase. You think because that person is a Sunday school teacher it is right to say "this is Christianity?" Or the pastors who diddle little boys, or get caught with their hands in the till, or get caught with a hooker, and man I can just go on and on. This silly discussion comes up once a week. Those people aren't "christian" Muslims who do bad things are not practicing Islam.

Question: if God (or in your case Allah) is in heaven, are you praying towards heaven, or a black pagan obelisk? if it's not towards heaven, you're not even praying to Allah, but to a black inanimate object. (Note: the Christians, who bow towards the heavens, are also praying in unison as well).

You cannot "bow towards the heavens" lol. Laws of gravity. You misrepresent yourself anyway. You build a church. Central to the church you build an alter. You bow towards that alter after every service. Your alter is a symbol of a holy place for you. Have you even been to church lately? Are you going to tell me you have the only apostolic church in history that has no alter? Or the only apostolic preacher in history that does not invite you down to it to pray? Why an alter? Is your god so impotent and weak he won't listen unless you go down to the alter to pray to him? Because you go bow at it that means you worship an inanimate object? (IF) you pray to your alter and worship your alter, you are making your alter, the object, in place of your god. You probably bow towards or at your alter because it was built for the purpose of representing a holy place and you pray to God there. Pagans built alters also. Do you practice pagan practices because pagans built them too? I feel stupid making this comparison actually.

Many of us also look up, not east (or whatever direction). I remember flying from Amsterdam to Bahrain, and we could never watch a movie. Why, because the screen which usually showed movies was constantly being updated as to where Mecca was. How sad is that? Your god can't even hear you if you're praying in the wrong direction? Leaving all the other "contradictions" in whoever's book we read, do you really wish to serve a God who is that impotent and weak? You're doing nothing more than what the Baal worshippers did in the Old Testament, praying to a wooden god, or in your case one of stone. You should read the O.T. prophet Isaiah, who mocked the Baal worshippers. Where it says Baal, just insert Kaaba. Same thing. He (Isaiah) really takes them to task in the 40th chapters.

When you look up you do what the pagans who worshipped the sun did. That is something pagans practiced too. Guess what? No matter HOW you say you yourself pray pagans of some sort probably prayed to their gods that way as well. If you have a wooden alter that you pray at in front of your church you could be mocked for doing what the baal worshippers did. You obviously did not fly KLM because if you had you could have watched movies (and had a little taste of drinky if you wanted). Next time don't buy the cheapest ticket. God is not weak or impotent. God is God. When one sincerely prays God listens and answers even if the answer is not what is expected. Islam does not teach that "God does not hear if you pray in the wrong direction". You said that. If you are unsure of the direction you just pray. This is what Islam teaches and I have done this on numerous times.

[Walks_in_islam]

Well God is due credit for goodness in the infidel's life as well.

Originally Posted by Thomas Trini

That's what I was saying, too. "The rain falls on the just and the unjust." WII should remember this if he was a Baptist (for even a "season").
To ask it again, what has Allah done for you, WII? What has He done for you? even the "infidel" can claim what you did.

[Walks_in_islam]

We were in a discussion on the invention of enemies and national emergencies giving new rise to the creation of sweeping new powers. The referenced book merely outlines the events just prior to the fall of Rome using the writings of Marcus Tullius Cicero as basis for the sequence of events. America was not at all the first republic. The book has nothing to do with religion but with the decline of a great republic. This decline is not fiction. Seriously? No, I do not expect you to take it seriously but thank you for asking. History not taken seriously merely repeats. I personally fully expect exactly the same outcomes for exactly the same reasons. As did the great philosopher Alexis de Tocqueville back in the mid-1800's. Whether you choose to read about it or not makes no difference and affects no outcomes.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

After all of our discourse you want me to read a book of fiction and take it seriously? Are you serious? lol

[Thomas Trini]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Well God is due credit for goodness in the infidel's life as well.

I think you missed the point. You were asked (I forget who) what has Allah done in your life? The answer you gave could be given by any infidel as well.
So, unless I missed it, what has Allah done for you? What has worshipping Allah done for you. Don't give an answer that could be given by any "infidel," either. It's a fair question, and one that doesn't require you to examine any contradictions within Islam.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Well God is due credit for goodness in the infidel's life as well.

Interesting use of the term "infidel" considering the ongoing conversation and subject of the thread.

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

We believe that we are put on this earth for only one purpose, and that is to serve God and follow His laws.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Yes, I see this. Is this one you are willing to obey?

Surah 61:10-13 "O you who believe! Shall I guide you to a trade that will save you from a painful torment? That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Mohammed), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know!

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

In this I see no choice.

Very interesting, indeed.....

[Thomas Trini]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

What a silly question. God is God. You pray to Him. We face the Kabaa when we pray. The Kabaa is the symbol for us of a holy place.

Actually, it's not. You claim to have read the Bible, and claim that we worship a false God. Same thing. I'm not saying you have to research every one of the hundereds, or thousands, of religions. It's a well known fact (by Christians and Muslims) that in Arab countries, they knew of Allah, that he was a pagan god, and the name of the city in which Mohammed lived bears a very striking similarity to the word Quran. Coincidence? Or perhaps convenience?

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Here we go again. I read more acts about "christians" doing worse than I read about muslims doing so. There is NO, not one, teaching either in the Hadiths or in the Quran about mutilating a baby girl. You say "muslims" do this but Islam does not teach that this is to be done. So……turnabout - I read about a Sunday school teacher stuffing a dead baby in a suitcase. You think because that person is a Sunday school teacher it is right to say "this is Christianity?" Or the pastors who diddle little boys, or get caught with their hands in the till, or get caught with a hooker, and man I can just go on and on. This silly discussion comes up once a week. Those people aren't "christian" Muslims who do bad things are not practicing Islam.

Hey, I'm not proud of some things done in the name of Christianity, either. We already talked about that as far as the Crusades go. But, unlike you, I can't just dismiss it. For example, atheists get absolutely furious over a guy like Ted Bundy confessings his sins, and now Christians claiming that he's "saved." It drives them nuts. But what about all of those who thought they could buy time, and wait for a deathbed confession at the end, only to get killed too late (and quickly) for such a "conversion?" Christians have shown great patience towards Muslims, and been spat upon in return. We don't kill those Muslims who choose to live in a Judeo-Christian nation like the U.S. The same cannot be said Muslim countries. Right now, the issue of "torturing" Muslims is in the news. But how can it be torture if we subject our own soldiers (e.g. Navy Seals, Green Berets and other members of the "Special Forces") to those kind of "interrogation techniques" in the U.S. military, including "waterboarding?"

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

You cannot "bow towards the heavens" lol. Laws of gravity.

You claim to have been a Baptist, yet almost sound more Catholic. Many Christians, such as myself, kneel, close their eyes, and look upward.

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

You misrepresent yourself anyway. You build a church. Central to the church you build an alter. You bow towards that alter after every service. Your alter is a symbol of a holy place for you. Have you even been to church lately? Are you going to tell me you have the only apostolic church in history that has no alter? Or the only apostolic preacher in history that does not invite you down to it to pray? Why an alter? Is your god so impotent and weak he won't listen unless you go down to the alter to pray to him? Because you go bow at it that means you worship an inanimate object? (IF) you pray to your alter and worship your alter, you are making your alter, the object, in place of your god. You probably bow towards or at your alter because it was built for the purpose of representing a holy place and you pray to God there. Pagans built alters also. Do you practice pagan practices because pagans built them too? I feel stupid making this comparison actually.

I have been to many services where, in order to get on our knees, we actually turn around (away from the altar) and pray with our hands on the pew (many "altars" are also nothing more than podiums or a platform. hardly an altar). Again, you sound more like a former Catholic than a former Baptist. This is one of the things that actually drives my wife nuts. The fact that MANY CHURCHES DO NOT HAVE ALTARS at all. We merely face the speaker/Pastor who's speaking. We (the majority of us here on this site are Protestant) also don't have the handy, dandy Catholic kneeling pad, either. So we can't really face forward towards the altar. Doing so often requires 2 minutes of shuffling trying to get your legs under the pews if we did face forward. try doing that when you have arthiritis or other problems.

YOU WERE A BAPTIST? I wonder if this is one of your fairy tales?

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

When you look up you do what the pagans who worshipped the sun did.

I thought you just said we didn't.

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

That is something pagans practiced too. Guess what? No matter HOW you say you yourself pray pagans of some sort probably prayed to their gods that way as well. If you have a wooden alter that you pray at in front of your church you could be mocked for doing what the baal worshippers did. You obviously did not fly KLM because if you had you could have watched movies (and had a little taste of drinky if you wanted). Next time don't buy the cheapest ticket. God is not weak or impotent. God is God. When one sincerely prays God listens and answers even if the answer is not what is expected. Islam does not teach that "God does not hear if you pray in the wrong direction". You said that. If you are unsure of the direction you just pray. This is what Islam teaches and I have done this on numerous times.

Actually, I did fly KLM, and they aren't the cheapest seats. But I did hear about a few guys who flew Arab Airways(where everyone, including the pilot and crew smoked all the way there. Try getting a "Non-Smoking" seat on that flight. Some Arabs even brought their "hookas"). But if Islam doesn't teach, or even imply, that God doesn't hear you if you pray in the wrong direction THEN WHY EVEN FACE THE KABAA?. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth again.

[Thomas Trini]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

We were in a discussion on the invention of enemies and national emergencies giving new rise to the creation of sweeping new powers. The referenced book merely outlines the events just prior to the fall of Rome using the writings of Marcus Tullius Cicero as basis for the sequence of events. America was not at all the first republic. The book has nothing to do with religion but with the decline of a great republic. This decline is not fiction. Seriously? No, I do not expect you to take it seriously but thank you for asking. History not taken seriously merely repeats. I personally fully expect exactly the same outcomes for exactly the same reasons. As did the great philosopher Alexis de Tocqueville back in the mid-1800's. Whether you choose to read about it or not makes no difference and affects no outcomes.

Why is we're supposed to read the things which you suggest, but you don't read or respond to what we ask? You merely deflect.

[Thomas Trini]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Here we go again. I read more acts about "christians" doing worse than I read about muslims doing so. There is NO, not one, teaching either in the Hadiths or in the Quran about mutilating a baby girl. You say "muslims" do this but Islam does not teach that this is to be done. So……turnabout - I read about a Sunday school teacher stuffing a dead baby in a suitcase. You think because that person is a Sunday school teacher it is right to say "this is Christianity?" Or the pastors who diddle little boys, or get caught with their hands in the till, or get caught with a hooker, and man I can just go on and on. This silly discussion comes up once a week. Those people aren't "christian" Muslims who do bad things are not practicing Islam. [/B]

Oh, by the way. Because your religion is works based, you have to accept all Muslims as authentic. However, in Christianity (which if you were a "Baptist" you'd know this), we only believe that those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord/God and Saviour are actually Christians. The rest are merely practicing "Churchianity." As it says in "The Good Book," HE will separate the wheat from the chaff. To paraphrase Keith Green: "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian make you a Christian any more than going to McDonald's makes you a hamburger." In Islam, the same cannot be said, because you ALL do things based upon a works based religion.

[Praxeas]

BTW it's not an "alter". It's a platform. We neither face IT or bow to IT with the intent that Muslims have in facing Mecca. They intentionally face it, no matter where it is at.