The theory of evolution in it's purest form is atheistic. It's the development of life through natural forces.
Aquila, YOU developed from natural forces. I'll spare you the details.
Technically, was God even necessary for "YOU?" No. Just a male and a female. And they didn't even have to love each other, or you or even believe in God. They just had to have the right number of chromosomes to produce viable human offspring. From there, it was all simple chemistry.
And yet, there you are.
A marvel of creation. The only possible "YOU" that could ever exist.
Some people never find any meaning in this. Others, find all the meaning in the world.
I've read where physists claim that it's not unlikely or a miracle at all. Universes form and pass away like the weather. It's just physics they say.
Quantum physics, String Theory and quatum vacuum fluctuations deserve their own thread(s). If you find time to read in this area you'll end up feeling like a believer and not an atheist at all. This is where I was torn away from my thoughts of atheism several years back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila
As for the "facts"... they are "facts" as the evolutionists interpret them.
It is a great discussion. I wonder when those who believe in theological evolution believe the Bible picks up and reports actual history? Then how do they explain the miraculous? Red Sea becomes the Reed Sea, no miraculous parting of the waters necessary, the waters were low that time of year. As for the "burning bush", just an exaggeration or vision. Was the vision induced by God or was it just too much sun? It all unravels in my opinion.
Did anyone see the post about the "Sooph Yawm?" The REED SEA is the RED SEA! It's the same body of water.
Solomon built ships that sailed to India from a port on the REED SEA (Sooph Yawm). Call it what you will, if you can sail to India on it, it's probably gonna be bigger than a bath tub.
In everything that's been said here, I think it is imperative that we acknowledge this fact. Before I’m going to say what I’m going to say, please note, I'm not trying to debunk God, His plan for us, nor the absolute Truth about Him. But this is worth considering regarding the Ancient Writings we use to understand our current status in a Relationship that is virtually without a Voice to tell us, yeah, or nay.
If we had an absolute yeah, or nay, we wouldn't be on here trying to figure out the obvious problems and questions that fill the World of Faith(s).
Don't you think we should have eye witnesses that can claim an actual visual of extreme events similar to what the Bible talks about? I don't understand why the Unnatural or Bizarre of God are "Past Tense", and none of these compare to today's current events other than a catastrophe such as earthquakes or hurricanes, and other acts of nature that can be measured.
Example; If Noah or any other past person lived today, and God was ready to do an Act that would defy all reason or natural force, I'll guarantee we would catch it on Video, DVD, Digital Camera, or some other Media source to confirm IT DID HAPPEN.
It seems strange to me that none of these things happen today, in a World where the event can truly be documented and archived as either a Supernatural happening or an Act of Nature.
What could have easily happened in the past are events like the Tsunami that devastated Indonesia, or the earthquake the rocked San Francisco, people began to claim the "God Did" thing just like they do today. When New Orleans was hit by Katrina, Religious people began to put God’s label on it, but people mocked this because we have an honest and broad view of our Planet now, and accountability is far more accurate regarding Nature and her ability to destroy, and rumors or exaggerated stories fall waste to the Truth.
I remember when we studied Eclipses in school. Past civilizations plastered this event with all kind's of Myths, but later were debunked by modern science. Back then, who could argue such Myths.
In everything that's been said here, I think it is imperative that we acknowledge this fact. Before I’m going to say what I’m going to say, please note, I'm not trying to debunk God, His plan for us, nor the absolute Truth about Him. But this is worth considering regarding the Ancient Writings we use to understand our current status in a Relationship that is virtually without a Voice to tell us, yeah, or nay.
If we had an absolute yeah, or nay, we wouldn't be on here trying to figure out the obvious problems and questions that fill the World of Faith(s).
Don't you think we should have eye witnesses that can claim an actual visual of extreme events similar to what the Bible talks about? I don't understand why the Unnatural or Bizarre of God are "Past Tense", and none of these compare to today's current events other than a catastrophe such as earthquakes or hurricanes, and other acts of nature that can be measured.
Example; If Noah or any other past person lived today, and God was ready to do an Act that would defy all reason or natural force, I'll guarantee we would catch it on Video, DVD, Digital Camera, or some other Media source to confirm IT DID HAPPEN.
It seems strange to me that none of these things happen today, in a World where the event can truly be documented and archived as either a Supernatural happening or an Act of Nature.
What could have easily happened in the past are events like the Tsunami that devastated Indonesia, or the earthquake the rocked San Francisco, people began to claim the "God Did" thing just like they do today. When New Orleans was hit by Katrina, Religious people began to put God’s label on it, but people mocked this because we have an honest and broad view of our Planet now, and accountability is far more accurate regarding Nature and her ability to destroy, and rumors or exaggerated stories fall waste to the Truth.
I remember when we studied Eclipses in school. Past civilizations plastered this event with all kind's of Myths, but later were debunked by modern science. Back then, who could argue such Myths.
POST OF THE DAY!
Er, ah, maybe you didn't need my endorsement.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
It is a great discussion. I wonder when those who believe in theological evolution believe the Bible picks up and reports actual history? Then how do they explain the miraculous? Red Sea becomes the Reed Sea, no miraculous parting of the waters necessary, the waters were low that time of year. As for the "burning bush", just an exaggeration or vision. Was the vision induced by God or was it just too much sun? It all unravels in my opinion.
I have a habit of parsing the term "evolution" in these types of discussions to avoid providing fodder to the scientifically correct crowd. Micro-evolution is indeed observable and accepted as a naturally occurring phenomenon, apart from macro-, which attempts to piece together the past origins of our existence. Imo, this is currently just as much a leap of faith to embrace, and possibly more so. The conclusions between macro-evolutionists and "nonmacro-evolutionists" will usually always begin to diverge at some point when trying to answer the how-to-the-why. It is true that our faith often ebbs at the points where we have witnessed inconsistencies or have been told false reports, whether that be from the religious crowd, or the scientific community.
Those you describe in your above quote need not be interpreted atheistic or godless in their understanding. It is really an issue of their placement of faith, and adopting a worldview that leans primarily either towards the materialistic or the intangible.
Last edited by noeticknight; 03-19-2010 at 05:29 PM.
Pel the things you presented, the Bible presents AS PARABLES. The things we're discussing the Bible presents AS EVENTS, big difference.
Did the walls of Jereicho literally fall down when some people shouted?
Did lots wife really turn into a pillar?
Did God really destroy Sodom & Ghommorah with fire?
Did Moses really recieve the 10 commandments written by God himself?
Did the sun really stand still in the sky?
Did David really kill a lion and a bear with his bare hands?
Did Samason really defeat 3000 phillistines?
Why stop in the old testament, once you doubt something?
Did a VIRGIN really have a baby?
Did a dead man really get up out of his grave?
Did people really come out of the graves at Jesus crucifiction?
There are some things in the Bible hard for me to fathom, but I've seen the miraculous in my life, and I have no reason to doubt seeing how the Bible has worked in my life. I haven't seen a blind man see, and I haven't seen a dead man get up, but I have seen demons cast out, and miraculous healings.
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"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
I think your suppose to accept it, no matter how silly it all looks like, or make excuses on how it happened but the Bible doesn't mention these theorys...
No... it's not a possible feat... not for a global flood. Only could happen if it was a local flood.
The heresy hunters are still with us. Only now, instead of stakes, they use their books and radio programs to destroy those they consider heretics.... I'm concerned that heresy hunting may be turning into leukemia because some cultwatchers seem more intent on destroying parts of the body than healing the body....
Pel the things you presented, the Bible presents AS PARABLES. The things were discussing the Bible presents AS EVENTS, big difference.
Did the walls of Jereicho literally fall down when some people shouted?
Did lots wife really turn into a pillar?
Did God really destroy Sodom & Ghommorah with fire?
Did Moses really recieve the 10 commandments written by God himself?
Did the sun really stand still in the sky?
Did David really kill a lion and a bear with his bare hands?
Did Samason really defeat 3000 phillistines?
Why stop in the old testament, once you doubt something?
Did a VIRGIN really have a baby?
Did a dead man really get up out of his grave?
Did people really come out of the graves at Jesus crucifiction?
There are some things in the Bible hard for me to fathom, but I've seen the miraculous in my life, and I have no reason to doubt seeing how the Bible has worked in my life. I haven't seen a blind man see, and I haven't seen a dead man get up, but I have seen demons cast out, and miraculous healings.
I'll have to re-order the list, Jason. I mean no reflection on you. You simply made a list of these things just as we've all done at times right off the top of our heads. However, these events and accounts (and even "stories") are embedded within a body of literature that was complied over many centuries of time and for different reasons. To understand each account you really need to look at the context, the writer and the purpose behind what the writer was saying.
Now, ultimately I believe all of the Scripture to be inspired of God and profitable (2 Timothy 3:16). However (just as an example), Luke didn't write Luke 14:1-17:10, with the intention that we believe all of the stories literally. He did however, write other passages like Luke 24 and Acts 1:1-Acts 2:47, with the intention that we do accept them as literal (See Luke 1:1-4 and Acts 1:1-4).
The problem here is how can we be certain of the differences? In the case of Luke's writings, I purposely chose an example that we all probably agree upon already. No one has ever seriously tried to make the case that the parables of Jesus be taken literally; though this particular string of parables is sometimes taken literally at least in parts (The Rich Man and Lazarus, etc.). Nevertheless, the whole account of the Parables at the Pharisee's House (Luke 14:1-17:10) is opened with the the statement made in Luke 14:7, "he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them..." Then the focus swings to different groups of people within the court area until finally, Jesus speaks just to His disciples (Luke 17:1).
For this reason, I see it as more correct to understand all of the "stories" in this passage as parables. Parables are not to be taken lightly just because they "didn't really happen." If anything, we need to pay especially close attention to the parables. By their very nature and the purpose behind their telling, they reveal truths that a straight rehearsal of "facts" would fail to transmit to us.
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