Please clarify for me. First you say that "homosexual orientation, like heterosexual orientation, develops during childhood and is non-existant at birth." You then go on to say that the "God-designed" development is for females to desire males and visa versa. Are you saying, then, that orientation is not present at birth but develops later on? If so, are you suggesting that because it develops later on that it is somehow not genetically/naturally pre-determined?
Yes, I'm saying orientation is not present at birth and that it develops during childhood.
The natural consequence of smoking is lung cancer. Does that make lung cancer sinful OR the consequence of something sinful? We can't judge everyone who has lung cancer simply because it is often the consequence of something that is considered to be wrong/sinful. Can we?
Is lung cancer a "natural" consequence of smoking? Just because many people who smoke do develop lung cancer does not make it a "natural" consequence.
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Just because the consequence of idolatry led the Gentiles of Romans 1 to be turned over to affections that were not natural to them does not mean that those with a geneticically predetermined oreintation which deviates from the norm can be judged as sinful.
No, what Romans 1 is saying is that all those other sins listed in Romans 1:26-32 came about as a result of humanity's first forays into idolatry. There is no such thing as "genetically predetermined orientation" and what the Bible refers to when referring to homosexuality is to thoughts and behaviors.
What we call "attraction" (whether to the opposite sex or to the same sex) is something I very narrowly define as the autonomic physiological and emotional response that we experience. Everything that occurs after the moment of the autonomic response (thoughts, lusts, actions) is a choice.
Allow me to jump in here momentarily.... if I may.
EVERYTHING we do, whether in word or deed, entails a personal decision. No, I do NOT believe that homosexuality is something which is developed during ones childhood. Simply put, IMHO, one chooses, of their own volition, to engage in an homosexual act, or NOT! Its just that simple, albeit one who elects to do so will certainly devise all sorts of reasoning for justification of their actions.
I learned many years ago that every act I undertake involves a decision. And it is my choice, ALONE, as to whether or not I choose to do something. To suggest that one is born with homosexual tendencies, or that this is something which is acquired/formed during ones childhood, is nothing more than assigning something other than PERSONAL CHOICE to support an act which stands in stark contrast to the distinctive difference which God instituted between the male and female at the time of their creation.
This is my personal view of this matter.
PaPaDon,
I don't know if you are married, have kids, grandkids, or what. If you do, may I ask, Did you chose to be attracted to your wife? Did you chose to fall in love with your wife? The choices you make regarding your wife and kids (again, assuming they exist) is influenced by your unchosen love and natural affection for them.
On a more specific and less philosophical level, did you chose your stature?; your foot size? your hairline? None of us have directly chosen any of these attributes YET we make decisions based on their naturally progressive existence (i.e., what kind of clothes and shoes to buy, what kind of hair products to use, etc.).
So it is with orientation. It is a naturally developing, God-given, human experience that is not determined by choice. What we as humans do choose, however, is how to physically respond to our natural psychological and emotional development.
Allow me to jump in here momentarily.... if I may.
EVERYTHING we do, whether in word or deed, entails a personal decision. No, I do NOT believe that homosexuality is something which is developed during ones childhood. Simply put, IMHO, one chooses, of their own volition, to engage in an homosexual act, or NOT! Its just that simple, albeit one who elects to do so will certainly devise all sorts of reasoning for justification of their actions.
I learned many years ago that every act I undertake involves a decision. And it is my choice, ALONE, as to whether or not I choose to do something. To suggest that one is born with homosexual tendencies, or that this is something which is acquired/formed during ones childhood, is nothing more than assigning something other than PERSONAL CHOICE to support an act which stands in stark contrast to the distinctive difference which God instituted between the male and female at the time of their creation.
This is my personal view of this matter.
On what morning, say around the onset of puberty, did you choose to be attracted to the opposite sex?
There's no doubt that acting on some unnatural same-sex attraction is sin but your post is typical of so many Christians who really don't even understand their own "sexual orientation" much less those orientations that are clearly contrary to God's created design for male and female.
I don't know if you are married, have kids, grandkids, or what. If you do, may I ask, Did you chose to be attracted to your wife? Did you chose to fall in love with your wife? The choices you make regarding your wife and kids (again, assuming they exist) is influenced by your unchosen love and natural affection for them.
On a more specific and less philosophical level, did you chose your stature?; your foot size? your hairline? None of have directly chosen any of these attributes YET we make decisions based on their naturally progressive existence.
So it is with orientation. It is a naturally developing, God-given, human experience that is not determined by choice. What we as humans do choose, however, is how to physically respond to our natural psychological and emotional development.
Well, non-heterosexual orientations are not "naturally developing" but, instead, are aberrations that are contrary to God's created design.
Is lung cancer a "natural" consequence of smoking? Just because many people who smoke do develop lung cancer does not make it a "natural" consequence.
No, what Romans 1 is saying is that all those other sins listed in Romans 1:26-32 came about as a result of humanity's first forays into idolatry. There is no such thing as "genetically predetermined orientation" and what the Bible refers to when referring to homosexuality is to thoughts and behaviors.
What we call "attraction" (whether to the opposite sex or to the same sex) is something I very narrowly define as the autonomic physiological and emotional response that we experience. Everything that occurs after the moment of the autonomic response (thoughts, lusts, actions) is a choice.
From a scientific perspective, thougts and lusts are NOT autonomic responses but, rather, psychological responses which have the potential to elicit physiologic responses.
Allow me to jump in here momentarily.... if I may.
EVERYTHING we do, whether in word or deed, entails a personal decision. No, I do NOT believe that homosexuality is something which is developed during ones childhood. Simply put, IMHO, one chooses, of their own volition, to engage in an homosexual act, or NOT! Its just that simple, albeit one who elects to do so will certainly devise all sorts of reasoning for justification of their actions.
I learned many years ago that every act I undertake involves a decision. And it is my choice, ALONE, as to whether or not I choose to do something. To suggest that one is born with homosexual tendencies, or that this is something which is acquired/formed during ones childhood, is nothing more than assigning something other than PERSONAL CHOICE to support an act which stands in stark contrast to the distinctive difference which God instituted between the male and female at the time of their creation.
This is my personal view of this matter.
Did you make a choice to be heterosexual? No, you didn't. That was something that developed during your childhood. You don't have to believe it, but it's true.
Think about it. You didn't suddenly think one day, "I think I'll prefer a girl for a mate." No, but instead, throughout your childhood, you chased girls around the playground, stole a quick kiss when the teacher or mom wasn't looking, and went out on dates as a teen.
Sexuality develops during childhood.
That being said, I also believe that in the case of homosexuality, there are people who make that choice out of curiosity or whatever. I don't believe that to be the case with many, or should I say most, homosexuals.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Well, non-heterosexual orientations are not "naturally developing" but, instead, are aberrations that are contrary to God's created design.
You cannot make a claim that homosexual orientation is not "naturally developing" unless you can prove that heterosexual orientation IS naturally developing and that homosexual orientation is not.
From a scientific perspective, thougts and lusts are NOT autonomic responses but, rather, psychological responses which have the potential to elicit physiologic responses.
No, thoughts and lusts are what you choose to do with the autonomic physiological and emotional response. The attraction occurs first, the thoughts, lusts and actions follow.
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