The Sabbath Day, Should You Keep or not Keep?

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Please don't think I was trying to rebuke you. That was not my intention. These text format discussions cannot convey tone or expression, so sometimes we come across as combative when that is not the case.

I have a question for you, out of curiosity:

How do you sanctify the Sabbath, as far as you, your family, etc? I mean, what specifically do you do?

Here's what we do:

Friday: all work is finished up, including food prep for Sabbath.
Friday evening: Table is set, we gather, sing Psalm 95 including a prostration at v. 6, vs. 7-11 are recited as a prayer by whoever led the psalm singing concluding with a brief paraphrase of Hebrews 4:9 and 11, then a call to stand and bless God with a corresponding blessing (Nehemiah 9:5), a prayer giving praise and thanks to Jesus Christ as Lord of the Sabbath, concluding with corporate praying of Psalm 67:1-2, then a blessing and thanksgiving for the food, then the eating. Our daily Bible reading usually follows the meal.
Sabbath evening: We will gather and pray, giving thanks for the day of rest and asking for God's blessing on our upcoming week, then we will recite Psalm 24 (the daily psalm for the first day of the week according to the Greek old testament, also according to the old Latin, and also according to the rabbinic custom which appears to derive from Temple usage).

(Of course, Sabbath is also church meeting day, but I am interested in the "separating" you do between Sabbath and the other days.)

Question!
Sabbath in Judaism was from 6:00 in the evening until the next evening. ?
If so the morning of Sunday could count like Sabbath to you?
We know Jesus resirected in the morning of the first day. So at the second part of the day because after Sunset is Monday.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Raffi

Thank you, Esaias, for the rebuke, and for bringing my attention to that. I will try to work on that, and do better in future posts.

Jesus rebukes Pharisees and we know that what Jews think for the bible is not count because : 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is removed in Christ.15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 But whenever one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.


I respect Christians that keep the Sabbath (either if i see it as a weakness of faith) but dont try to use out of Christianity (spirit filled) other religion proofs.
Anyway just a question for you (if you want to answer). Do you believe Jesus is Yahweh Salvation? Do you believe in oneness of God in Christ?
Thanks!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by peter83

Question!
Sabbath in Judaism was from 6:00 in the evening until the next evening. ?
If so the morning of Sunday could count like Sabbath to you?
We know Jesus resirected in the morning of the first day. So at the second part of the day because after Sunset is Monday.

The Biblical Sabbath is from "evening to evening". This is generally understood to mean from from after sunset to after sunset, as the day gets dark. Sabbath begins Friday evening after sunset, and continues until Saturday evening after sunset. Jesus was resurrected sometime in the early part of the first day of the week, before dawn, which means at any time between Saturday evening and Sunday morning (sunrise).

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The Biblical Sabbath is from "evening to evening". This is generally understood to mean from from after sunset to after sunset, as the day gets dark. Sabbath begins Friday evening after sunset, and continues until Saturday evening after sunset. Jesus was resurrected sometime in the early part of the first day of the week, before dawn, which means at any time between Saturday evening and Sunday morning (sunrise).

The Sabbath is one of those things I tend to gravitate back to on occasion. I don't call myself a "Sabbath keeper", although I have specifically set aside the 7th day for worship and devotion many times, even on those occasions the church service I was attending wasn't until Sunday. For me, when I've observed the Sabbath it was a deeply personal and private time of devotion.

I know that it might sound sentimental, but the one thing I've always enjoyed about the Sabbath was how it is based on the rhythms of nature itself (being from evening to evening). As the sun goes down, it is almost as though time itself becomes sacred. A tabernacle in time, if you will. For those who house church, it is as though a time to worship becomes a blanket that envelopes the entire world and whether one is at home with family or gathered with others corporately, "church" descends upon all of creation. One need not "do" anything or "make" anything happen. The Sabbath simply falls upon us like a gentle rain. Rest itself becomes... an act of worship. And so it serves as the perfect type and shadow of the grace we experience in Christ. And as strange as it might seem, the observance reminds us just how wonderful it is to be under grace. How we are to rest in Christ Jesus from the works commanded in the Law of Moses. It is truly a beautiful, lovely, and precious thing. My favorite thing to do when I've observed the Sabbath was to find a nice and quiet spot out in nature and soak in God's presence as the God of all creation. I remember the last time I did this I sang the old hymn...

“Great is Thy faithfulness,” O God my Father,
There is no shadow of turning with Thee;
Thou changest not, Thy compassions, they fail not
As Thou hast been Thou forever wilt be.

“Great is Thy faithfulness!” “Great is Thy faithfulness!”
Morning by morning new mercies I see;
All I have needed Thy hand hath provided—
“Great is Thy faithfulness,” Lord, unto me!

Summer and winter, and springtime and harvest,
Sun, moon and stars in their courses above,
Join with all nature in manifold witness
To Thy great faithfulness, mercy and love.

“Great is Thy faithfulness!” “Great is Thy faithfulness!”
Morning by morning new mercies I see;
All I have needed Thy hand hath provided—
“Great is Thy faithfulness,” Lord, unto me!

Pardon for sin and a peace that endureth,
Thine own dear presence to cheer and to guide;
Strength for today and bright hope for tomorrow,
Blessings all mine, with ten thousand beside!

“Great is Thy faithfulness!” “Great is Thy faithfulness!”
Morning by morning new mercies I see;
All I have needed Thy hand hath provided—
“Great is Thy faithfulness,” Lord, unto me!

I have a soft spot for the idea of the Sabbath, although I've tried to avoid any legalism associated with it. All I can say is, even if it isn't "required" for the born again Christian, there is a blessing to be found in the principle of sacred rest. A day of personal devotion and worship.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

And as strange as it might seem, the observance reminds us just how wonderful it is to be under grace. How we are to rest in Christ Jesus from the works commanded in the Law of Moses.

You don't rest from your works until you've done the works. Besides, resting in Jesus does not mean "Not doing what God commands." That is called "iniquity", or "lawlessness", and hardly qualifies as entering into God's rest.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The Sabbath is one of those things I tend to gravitate back to on occasion. I don't call myself a "Sabbath keeper", although I have specifically set aside the 7th day for worship and devotion many times, even on those occasions the church service I was attending wasn't until Sunday. For me, when I've observed the Sabbath it was a deeply personal and private time of devotion.

I know that it might sound sentimental, but the one thing I've always enjoyed about the Sabbath was how it is based on the rhythms of nature itself (being from evening to evening). As the sun goes down, it is almost as though time itself becomes sacred. A tabernacle in time, if you will. For those who house church, it is as though a time to worship becomes a blanket that envelopes the entire world and whether one is at home with family or gathered with others corporately, "church" descends upon all of creation. One need not "do" anything or "make" anything happen. The Sabbath simply falls upon us like a gentle rain. Rest itself becomes... an act of worship. And so it serves as the perfect type and shadow of the grace we experience in Christ. And as strange as it might seem, the observance reminds us just how wonderful it is to be under grace. How we are to rest in Christ Jesus from the works commanded in the Law of Moses. It is truly a beautiful, lovely, and precious thing. My favorite thing to do when I've observed the Sabbath was to find a nice and quiet spot out in nature and soak in God's presence as the God of all creation. I remember the last time I did this I sang the old hymn...

“Great is Thy faithfulness,” O God my Father,
There is no shadow of turning with Thee;
Thou changest not, Thy compassions, they fail not
As Thou hast been Thou forever wilt be.

“Great is Thy faithfulness!” “Great is Thy faithfulness!”
Morning by morning new mercies I see;
All I have needed Thy hand hath provided—
“Great is Thy faithfulness,” Lord, unto me!

Summer and winter, and springtime and harvest,
Sun, moon and stars in their courses above,
Join with all nature in manifold witness
To Thy great faithfulness, mercy and love.

“Great is Thy faithfulness!” “Great is Thy faithfulness!”
Morning by morning new mercies I see;
All I have needed Thy hand hath provided—
“Great is Thy faithfulness,” Lord, unto me!

Pardon for sin and a peace that endureth,
Thine own dear presence to cheer and to guide;
Strength for today and bright hope for tomorrow,
Blessings all mine, with ten thousand beside!

“Great is Thy faithfulness!” “Great is Thy faithfulness!”
Morning by morning new mercies I see;
All I have needed Thy hand hath provided—
“Great is Thy faithfulness,” Lord, unto me!

I have a soft spot for the idea of the Sabbath, although I've tried to avoid any legalism associated with it. All I can say is, even if it isn't "required" for the born again Christian, there is a blessing to be found in the principle of sacred rest. A day of personal devotion and worship.

It's an awesome object lesson about Christ, like a shadow has a vague but somewhat resembling idea of the body that casts the shadow. One can see THE REAL rest in Christ! Sabbath year and Jubilee sabbath of sabbaths, and sabbath day all speak VOLUMES of Jesus.

He's my bread when I'm hungry, my water when I'm thirsty, the manna, the river of life, the sabbath rest to whom we come if we're heavy laden and we labour.

[Raffi]

Friends,

I am sorry I do not at this moment have time to answer all the questions and points above. We are under the bearing of Irma right now, and are rapidly making preparations to deal with her wrath. Pray for us here in Florida.

I will get back to Esaias' questions as soon as I can. But in the mean time, for Mike, without going into long descriptions of my views of "Under The Law" again, which I would love and prefer to do . . . allow me instead just to point you to a couple of web sites come explain my view, or at least come close.

https://hoshanarabbah.org/blog/2015/...-the-law-mean/
This article is very good, and seems to explain very clearly how I understand the phrase "under the Law".

www.gotquestions.org/not-under-the-law.html
This article is a mainstream Evangelical article, and even these people agree that "under the Law" means under the "condemnation of The Law". I don't agree with EVERYTHING in this article, though. I disagree with the strange conclusion that because Jesus satisfied the demands of The Law, that we are no longer required to obey It. It is a common claim that we must keep the "Law of Christ" RATHER than The Law of God from Moses. I do not believe there is a difference between The Law of God and The Law of Christ. Messiah's Law is the SAME thing as God's Law.

I will be glad to flesh this in later with Scripture, but I believe the Law of Christ is the Same as The Law of God for MANY reasons:

* Jesus/Yeshua himself submitted himself to The Law of God, and endorsed It, and taught others to keep It.
* Messiah is said to be our EXAMPLE, and that we are to follow in his steps.
*Jesus/Yeshua admitted on a NUMBER of occasions that his own Teaching and Doctrine was not his own (meaning, not made up here while in the flesh) but were from The Father (meaning, originally from God in Heaven).
* The Law of God from Moses claims in MANY places to be eternal, and that is how all Hebrew people then understood it and Jews STILL understand it.
* All The Prophets of The Bible anticipate a future and everlasting vindication of God's Law over all of humankind.
* A belief in the theology that says, "Messiah kept The Law to show us the proper way for us to do so too," rather than "Messiah kept The Law so that we wouldn't have to".
* several other reasons also, which I am afraid that right now I just do not have the time to enumerate.

The claim is that The Law of Christ is to LOVE GOD AND OTHERS. But wait a minute, this is what I find confusing of people. The First Law claimed the exact same thing of Itself in Deuteronomy 6, and both of the Great Commandments quoted in The New Testament as PROOF of Christ's Law are both the Great Commandments of "Moses'" Law too. So what gives? How is Christ's Law fundamentally different from Moses' Law?
I say, in substance, both Laws are the same. But it is the Covenant that is better, not The Law. The Covenant of Messiah makes provision for the Fullness of The Spirit, which fills us with the Power of Divine Grace to enable us to follow Messiah's example in fulfilling The Law. So, where I agree with the first part of the above article, I simply can't see where the writer comes to his conclusion in the final part of the article. There does not seem to be a clear connection with the first part of his argument with the implications of his final statements. It is a traditional theological belief.

https://carm.org/what-does-it-mean-to-be-under-the-law
Article is by Matt Slick, President and Founder of the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry.
Slight disagreement with the article, but basically, the writer agrees with me that the phrase "under the Law" means to be under the power and authority of The Law to JUDGE AND CONDEMN A PERSON WHO BREAKS THE LAW.

And one more article:
www.eliyah.com/underlaw.html
Aside from my disagreement with this writer's Binitarianism, I think this article starts off very good, building the case that "under The Law" has to do with being under "guilt" and thus "condemnation of The Law". But half-way down the article, the writer deviates slightly and concludes that "under the Law" means "relying on their own righteousness/law-keeping to be justified" . . .
I agree that no one should rely on their own law-keeping for Justification, but I don't think that is what the phrase "under the Law" means.

Mike, read these articles. If nothing else, I hope they help you understand WHY I hold the view that I have. I would that I had the time to give a detailed explanation myself, but like I said, we are dealing with a lot right now.

I am sorry I cannot respond right now to any one else. It is possible that the internet will be knocked out here, and if so, I may not be able to respond for a while.

Love you all, and I have had a lot of fun being on this forum.

Peace.

[Raffi]

While I have a moment, I will quickly respond to Esaias.

Concerning the way we separate Shabbat:
We are mostly household congregations, some of us have public sanctuaries as well. So, it differs a bit from community-to-community. But in general, our group sometimes meets on Friday evening. There is a blowing of the shofar, a reading from Exodus 20:8-11, and 31:13, 16-17 as an introduction. We recite Psalm 92 and 93. Also, Psalm 95-99. Sometimes Psalm 29. We recite the blessing for those who keep the Sabbath from Isaiah 58:13, 14.
The corporate prayer includes the recitation of the Sh'ma facing toward Jerusalem. My home group is blessed to have a brother who can recite the entire Sh'ma in Hebrew.
When we meet corporately on Friday evenings at Ereb Shabbat, after these prayers, there is some singing of praise songs, sometimes there is Hebraic Circle Dancing. But usually, it is very laid back. And sometimes there is a short Scripture Devotion for encouragement.
Then there is the Breaking of Bread and the juice. We go home and each eat an Evening Meal, which was pre-prepared during the day. We do our Scripture studies with the families at home, preferably led by the father's.

When we don't meet corporately on Fridays, families generally pray the Psalms and blessings in their own homes with the family.

Sabbath mornings get together, the call to assembly by the shofar, then we pray some Psalms and other prayers. There is a bigger gathering for praise and worship, usually involving songs in both English as well as songs in Hebrew. It is not uncommon for Davidic Dance (men with men, women with women). Usually, this part is not that different from the way we used to do things in the UPCI. Then there is a Sermon according to the Parasha. Closing with the Aaronic Blessing in Hebrew (Num. 6:25). After the service it is not uncommon to continue in praise and worship, with members praying for one another (men with men, women with women), ministering to one another through Spiritual Gifts. Those who request prayer are anointed with oil and prayed for.

The Habdalah is usually held at private homes, with the eating of a final meal and some Scripture reading. And usually closed with the reading of Psalm 24.

Pretty simple. Hope that helps out.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You don't rest from your works until you've done the works. Besides, resting in Jesus does not mean "Not doing what God commands." That is called "iniquity", or "lawlessness", and hardly qualifies as entering into God's rest.

Dude, I'm eating a sausage and pepperoni pizza right now. Lol

Every legalist has their own version of what laws to keep. Every list is different, every interpretation of each list is different. And the debates and striving about the law among them is endless.

The Law that is written upon our hearts is, love.

Romans 13:8-10English Standard Version (ESV)
8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Love will not only fulfill the ten commandments, but it will go infinitely beyond it. Love God. Love others. The rest is commentary.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Every legalist has their own version of what laws to keep. Every list is different, every interpretation of each list is different. And the debates and striving about the law among them is endless.

God has given commandments, they explain how we are to live. The fact various people dispute doctrines does not absolve anyone of their responsibility to learn the will of God and follow it. If it did, as you are suggesting, then we have no responsibilities whatsoever, at all.

The Law that is written upon our hearts is, love.

Romans 13:8-10English Standard Version (ESV)
8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Loving God and one's neighbor does not result in disobeying the instructions God has given us. There is no dichotomy. It's not "I love God therefore I can ignore His will for how I live." Even a child can grasp that. Too bad adults have such a hard time with it.