Adultery vs Fornication

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by Antipas

So, I see no reason to forbid remarriage.

Originally Posted by Antipas

However, this doesn't negate that divorce and remarriage to another was never God's intention or perfect will. To do so is sin.

If you are correct that it is a sin, there is no reason to forbid it? Slip of the keyboard or did I not understand your entire reply?

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Esaias

If sin is the transgression of the law, then treating ALL remarriage after divorce as sin would be wrong, for the law certainly did allow remarriage after divorce. The key is to determine what the law's parameters and intention is. But since the law provides the written delineation of what is sin, we overreach if we go beyond what is written and declare as sin that which is not declared as such by God.

I think many forget that the Law is not God, nor does it fully express God's intention for man. It is a natural covenant with an ancient earthly nation. Jesus tells us that divorce was never God's will, yet it was permitted in the Law because of man's hardness of heart...

Matthew 19:7-8 (KJV)
7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

We must be careful not to make an idol out of the Law. God directed Moses to allow for divorce because of man's sinfulness. God knew that men would kill their wives to escape the marriage if God didn't provide a means of separation through divorce. But it was never God's intention for man to ever divorce.

So, here, the Law doesn't express God's perfect will for mankind.

I believe that most would agree that God's permissiveness with polygamy is very much the same. Polygamy was never God's intention for man. And so, it too is sin, though permitted and even regulated by God.

God and God's holiness is infinitely higher than the Law. This is why it is dangerous to become too fixated upon Law outside of the context if it being an ancient covenantal law, given by an Eternal God, to an ancient earthly nation.

On a side note, the idea that pastors have anything to do with performing (or denying) a marriage is completely unscriptural and comes straight from Catholic dogma (sacramentalism, clericalism, whereby a man in the church puts himself in the position of God, since it is God who joins two people together in marriage, ie to claim the power to perform or deny marriages in general is a mark of the Man of Sin).

That's interesting. If state licensed clergy do not perform weddings and establish marriages, who does?

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Ehud

If you are correct that it is a sin, there is no reason to forbid it? Slip of the keyboard or did I not understand your entire reply?

The Scriptures speak of remarriage being adultery if one chooses to remarry. But nowhere is one "forbidden" to make that choice. In fact, Jesus even implies that people will remarry when he speaks of a husband "causing" his wife to commit adultery if he divorces her. Jesus never forbade remarriage, he only defined such as sin. It isn't God's perfect will for man.

[Antipas]

Let's focus more upon the Word and less upon opinion...

Concerning divorce itself, Jesus states...

Matthew 19:7-8 (KJV)
7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

The NASB puts it this way...

Matthew 19:7-8 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give her a certificate of divorce and send her away?” 8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.

So we can agree from this passage that the Law's accommodation for divorce as provided by Moses was merely an accommodation based on man's wickedness... not God's will.

Now...if divorce wasn't God's will from the beginning... how can remarriage to another after a divorce be God's will???

Can a married man claim that it is God's will that he have a different woman, and divorce his wife to attain God's will??? Of course not. Divorce isn't God's will. Neither is remarriage.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Ehud

Good afternoon, Antipas!

I feel like I have read this multiple times in this thread (might have been others, I'm not entirely certain), but is there any scripture for this? The Google wasn't very helpful in answering. Ha!

Well, Jesus stated...

Matthew 19:5
And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh...

Here, Jesus states that the man shall "cleave" unto his wife. To "cleave" in the ancient understanding meant to become so bonded or to produce such a union, that division of the two parts would destroy both. And the two are to become "one flesh", meaning a single organism. There is much symbolism here for the Oneness believer in that marriage mirrors the incarnation. It mirrors God's union of His divine being and person with the humanity of man in Jesus Christ. An inseparable reality and singleness of being in two natures. But that's another topic.

The point is that man and wife become so united that divide them would destroy them, they are a single organism in God's eyes.

Jesus goes on...

Matthew 19:5
What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Here two things are stated. First, it is stated that it is God who joins a man and woman together. If God joins a man and woman, who is powerful enough to break that union??? No one. In fact, this is why Jesus admonishes that we are not to allow the notion that man can put asunder this union. No human being can break this. No court, no priest, no husband, no wife, no one. It is indissoluble.

This is why in Luke Jesus is recorded as being rather straight forward...

Luke 16:18
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

That is straight forward, without any questionable exceptions, or references to any ancient custom. Divorce and remarriage to another is adultery. If there were an exception, why did Luke attempt to deceive us by covering it up? I believe Luke understood that Christ's point was simple. Divorce and remarriage to another, though done, is not God's will for man.

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Well, Jesus stated...

Thank you for the response!

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Ehud

Thank you for the response!

I'm sure greater men could better articulate what I'm trying to say. lol I hope it helped.

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by Antipas

I'm sure greater men could better articulate what I'm trying to say. lol I hope it helped.

At a minimum, I understand where you’re coming from. That can’t be said for all the bazillion arguments I’m trying to follow around this place. Ha! Again, I appreciate your time, friend.

[coksiw]

Very interesting discussion. I'm watching it . I have pentecostal close friends and relative affected by divorce.

Antipas, regarding "and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh". If your spouse goes and divorce you and marriage another person making one flesh, how that leaves the other spouse? Is he/she still one flesh with the original spouse at that point?

I just wonder what your options are to recover from an abusive relationship (infidelity, domestic violence, etc...).

What if Jesus was talking about those that because they couldn't afford multiple wives (cultural context), would divorce the current one and marriage another one they desire, pretty much committing adultery in a "legal" way? In my opinion, I find hard to believe that God wouldn't allow those that suffered the brutality of sin to recover.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Ehud

At a minimum, I understand where you’re coming from. That can’t be said for all the bazillion arguments I’m trying to follow around this place. Ha! Again, I appreciate your time, friend.

Thanks, God bless you and yours!