Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Barb

Are you serious, Elder?

My honorable sister, I would never kid you about something like this.

I'm as serious as a heart attack coupled with a brain aneurysm.

TGBTG

Howard Goss - Trinitarian turned Oneness apostolic (Considered Trinitarians as brethren; UPC Superintendent)

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...p/t-39349.html

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

Brother Goss was still very friendly with the enemy the Assemblies of God. It was said that he would have gone back to the AG if he was booted from the UPCI. He preached in AG churches........

Enemy? Hold on, Jay Hove Witness, Joe Smithites, Moses Berg Children of god, Church of gods, Roman Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox, Hindus are Trinitarians but will tell you they believe in ONE GOD all day long. Bro, I love you, but this isn't about an enemy, it is about a fragmented sanitized curve ball that NO ONE in the Old Testament EVER believed. Rabbi Tovia Singer candy stick is converting mainstream Christians by proving to them that the Trinity is false.

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Enemy? Hold on, Jay Hove Witness, Joe Smithites, Moses Berg Children of god, Church of gods, Roman Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox, Hindus are Trinitarians but will tell you they believe in ONE GOD all day long. Bro, I love you, but this isn't about an enemy, it is about a fragmented sanitized curve ball that NO ONE in the Old Testament EVER believed. Rabbi Tovia Singer candy stick is converting mainstream Christians by proving to them that the Trinity is false.

Really my comment was tongue in cheek.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

Brother Goss was still very friendly with the enemy the Assemblies of God. It was said that he would have gone back to the AG if he was booted from the UPCI. He preached in AG churches........

I don't mean to doubt you here, but "it was said" is not proof he said it. As for being friendly, what does that mean?

And finally, he preached in AG churches... why not take the truth everywhere?

Sorry, but I'm missing something here...

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Barb

I don't mean to doubt you here, but "it was said" is not proof he said it. As for being friendly, what does that mean?

And finally, he preached in AG churches... why not take the truth everywhere?

Sorry, but I'm missing something here...

I understand your reaction.

So, I must agree with you. It was said he said it. Yet, Fudge in his book goes further to solidify that Goss was a Trinitarian enabler. Yet, again, that is also hearsay. I don't remember if Fudge or anyone else has notes in Goss' own hand of his opinion concerning Trinitarian sponsorship. Yet, we don't have anything concerning Goss mentioning that Trinitarians weren't saved. Preaching in a church doesn't mean that Goss gave instructed Bible studies concerning Truth of Jesus name baptism, or the mighty God in Jesus.

Do we have any reports of Howard Goss converting Trinitarian congregations and their preachers?

[derAlte]

The years go by so quickly. They stretch into decades and the meaning of the events of one’s youth as seen from the perspective of late middle age cause them to take on a different hue. It is so interesting to me as I look back on the events described in Dr. Fudge’s book and realize how my own opinions have changed since that period in my life. I didn’t have a front row seat to events described therein, but I was in the theatre several rows back and knew most of the main characters personally.

With the knowledge that I am probably closer to the day of my death than I am to the day of my birth, I have decided to catalogue all the books I’ve accumulated over the years in order to facilitate their disposal should I be called to glory. As I was proceeding with this mammoth task, I ran across Tom Fudge’s opus, Heretics & Politics and decided to re-read it.

Although I have had no contact with Tom in over a decade and half since I left my home state of Oregon, I do consider him a friend. We first became acquainted when he was a student at CBC. Later, we rekindled our acquaintance about twenty years ago as he was immersed in research for his book Christianity without the Cross. Before I left Oregon, he would come to my hometown on occasion as he had relatives who resided there and we shared several enjoyable meals discussing his research and views. I believe I may have even introduced him to someone whose witness became an important part of his book. I’m not sure if I should be proud or ashamed.

One thing I have learned as the years have progressed is that one can be friends with someone without sharing complete agreement on everything. One can disagree without being disagreeable. Back then I did not share his worldview and outlook on things Pentecostal and I still don’t. But, knowing a lot of the back story to the events he describes and the people involved, I can understand his feelings even if I don’t share them.

The late ‘70s and early ‘80s were intense years in the Great Northwest in United Pentecostal Church circles. As I have begun reading the book, so many memories have come flooding back. I was fond of most of the people mentioned in the book on all sides of the spectrum and I miss them. To this day I mourn the fact that I don‘t see them anymore. The main protagonist, Don Fisher, I only met a couple of times.

I learned so much during those years as they were formative to me but I don’t return there much in my mind. Even though my hair is now gray and my joints ache and are stiff, I believe I’m living my best years right now. There are some event sequences in my life that I don’t understand. I remember how passionate I felt about things then. I suspect Tom Fudge may have written this book in order to find some kind of peace with what happened then. If I ever seen him again, I’d like to ask him if writing the book helped him make sense as a mature adult of some very traumatic events that occurred when he was a youth. I’m told writing can be a very healing exercise. I sincerely hope it was for him. Those were very confusing and trying times and many young people did not emerge with their faith and relationship with Jesus Christ intact.

[Evang.Benincasa]

derAlte beautifully written post.

May I suggest taking omega 3, 6, and 9 in one capsule, also collagen, MSM, glucosamine. It won't get rid of the gray, but your joints will feel awesome.

This powder drink is very good. It helped get rid of my tennis elbow that developed with Mountain Biking.

http://www.dpsnutrition.net/i/17522/...SABEgL_w_D_BwE

[Steve Epley]

Howard Goss never believed the necessity of the new birth message. He received the HGB under Parham. He was converted to Durham's position then to Ewart & Cook's position.

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Howard Goss never believed the necessity of the new birth message. He received the HGB under Parham. He was converted to Durham's position then to Ewart & Cook's position.

Elder I have always thought that the PCI leaned more towards the one step view of Salvation.

[houston]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

Elder I have always thought that the PCI leaned more towards the one step view of Salvation.

That was their view.