Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

BTW I never said Jesus was with God. Its clear the Word was made flesh and John calls the Word made flesh "Jesus"

You were answered and with scriptures

Thanks, he and I really didnt know your position, that is why he asked the question. I have defined myself the best I could, but most folks, including yourself, dont get much into the detailed explanations of your beliefs. Maybe you have been doing this for so many years you have become tired of explaining your positions over and over again? It would be nice to see you elaborate on your various positions sometimes. I would like to read those posts you would do to see your beliefs from time to time.

[Trordfure]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

BTW I never said Jesus was with God. Its clear the Word was made flesh and John calls the Word made flesh "Jesus"

You were answered and with scriptures

What verse, did John call the Word, Jesus?
Post it for me, so I will know exactly, what verse,
you believe, John called the Word, Jesus.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sean

Thanks, he and I really didnt know your position, that is why he asked the question. I have defined myself the best I could, but most folks, including yourself, dont get much into the detailed explanations of your beliefs. Maybe you have been doing this for so many years you have become tired of explaining your positions over and over again? It would be nice to see you elaborate on your various positions sometimes. I would like to read those posts you would do to see your beliefs from time to time.

My position was that your idea of pronouns is not supported by Greek grammar

The idea that a masculine pronoun proves something is a person is not true.

My Theological position is Oneness. Jesus is God.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Trordfure

What verse, did John call the Word, Jesus?
Post it for me, so I will know exactly, what verse,
you believe, John called the Word, Jesus.

I've posted it for you 2 times now.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Trordfure

Which came first, God or the Word?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You just quoted me doing it. All you had to do was read vs 14-18

Originally Posted by Trordfure

This in not true. If it were true,
you would show me the verse,
that contained these words "Jesus is the Word".

It is not written in the bible, "Jesus is the Word".

How come you cannot admit this?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

as I told you, You just quoted me quoting the verses you asked for. Do I really need to help you out here?

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.'")
Joh 1:16 And from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

There. The topic John is talking about is Jesus Christ. The word was made flesh and that word made flesh is called Jesus in vs 17

Originally Posted by Trordfure

What verse, did John call the Word, Jesus?
Post it for me, so I will know exactly, what verse,
you believe, John called the Word, Jesus.

You need to read what Im answering

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sean

Verse 4 and 5 are not concerning the LOGOS, only verse 1 and 2 are. I was trying to get us to talk about that. "The same", instead of "HE" is used correctly because it refers to the LOGOS. Things change a bit from verse 3 on.....Logos is not used again until verse 14.

I meant 3&4 and yes they are referring to the Logos

Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

The Noun Logos is masculine. The Pronouns in vs 2 is masculine. The Pronouns in vs 3 and 4 are also masculine

This "He" is "in Him was life and the Light of men"

That Light, John says was in the world

Joh 1:8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.
Joh 1:9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.

Nobody that knows grammar, English or Greek would agree with you that verse 3 and 4 are not about the Logos

The reason Logos is not used is because we have pronouns. In Grammar Pronouns take the place of Nouns. So instead of saying "Logos Logos Logos, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, God, God, God, Peter, Peter Peter" over and over, in both English and Greek we replace nouns with pronouns.

That is basis grammar

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I meant 3&4 and yes they are referring to the Logos

Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

The Noun Logos is masculine. The Pronouns in vs 2 is masculine. The Pronouns in vs 3 and 4 are also masculine

This "He" is "in Him was life and the Light of men"

That Light, John says was in the world

Joh 1:8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.
Joh 1:9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.

Nobody that knows grammar, English or Greek would agree with you that verse 3 and 4 are not about the Logos

The reason Logos is not used is because we have pronouns. In Grammar Pronouns take the place of Nouns. So instead of saying "Logos Logos Logos, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, God, God, God, Peter, Peter Peter" over and over, in both English and Greek we replace nouns with pronouns.

That is basis grammar

Ok Prax....My question is this.....if you could please elaborate on this passage and explain what the "word" actually is referring to here. We know it was in the beginning with God and it is God, you say it is masculine...is it simply an actual spoken word or something else I am not seeing?
BTW... I know you do not believe that the WORD here is Jesus(post 298). I am fine with the teaching that Jesus was there from the beginning, (but only in the thoughts of God). Thanks


1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...(please elaborate)

[Trordfure]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I've posted it for you 2 times now.

No, you did not. Let the record show that you refused
to answer my question.

If you say otherwise then, I say to you, as I have said to God,
that you will not answer, this for me, as of yet.

What verse, did John call the Word, Jesus?
Post it for me, so I will know exactly, what verse,
you believe, John called the Word, Jesus.

Post it right here.

If you do not post that verse then, the record, will show
you did not answer the question.

Now you can lie and give all the excuses you like, but in the court of heaven, they will not tolerate your nonsense.

I am not required to even tell you this, but I wanted to warn you, so as to enter this evidence against you. That even being warned, and told, that charges were being brought forth in the court of heaven, against you, you still refused, to do that which is right, in the
sight of the Lord.

1 more time.

What verse, did John call the Word, Jesus?
Post it for me, so I will know exactly, what verse,
you believe, John called the Word, Jesus.

Post it right here.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sean

Ok Prax....My question is this.....if you could please elaborate on this passage and explain what the "word" actually is referring to here. We know it was in the beginning with God and it is God, you say it is masculine...is it simply an actual spoken word or something else I am not seeing?
BTW... I know you do not believe that the WORD here is Jesus(post 298). I am fine with the teaching that Jesus was there from the beginning, (but only in the thoughts of God). Thanks


1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...(please elaborate)

What the word "word" refers to is 100% irrelevant as far as the pronouns go. In the Greek the pronouns are all masculine and in the Greek Nouns and Pronouns must agree in case, number and Gender, not because it proves Personhood, but because that is just the way Greek grammar works

So the word Church in greek is feminine and takes a feminine pronoun

You say "You say it is masculine", WRONG. Greek says it's masculine. The noun Logos is a masculine noun. Every pronoun in those verses are also masculine because the noun is.

This is not me making it up. This is not me arguing theology. This is me telling you how Greek grammar works.

So when you say "You say it is masculine" you make it seem as though I am making a theological argument when in fact any one that knows Greek or at least has access to those that DO know Greek will know the noun Logos is a masculine noun as are all the pronouns.

I am not going to "elaborate" on theology until that matter is clear.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Trordfure

No, you did not.

This is me ignoring you. Until you deal with the verses I've posted 3 times now instead of lying and telling me "No you did not" over and over. I won't even bother to read your crazy posts