Bott '14

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Really?

No I don't have ill will towards the man. I can call someone out over their behavior and not have ill will towards them. You may not be able to, that's your prerogative. You refuse to even say he was wrong for his attack. Again, that's your prerogative.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by n david

Actually Triumphant1 gave statement to Maxwell's original comment. We still don't know what SG said. And that's why SG's comment matters to me, and why it does upset me that you don't care what SG actually said.

Stop twisting the things I have said. I didn't say "I don't care what SG said."

What I said is that it doesn't really matter, in light of JA standing before all the ministers, what SG said. It matters how what SG said was "received" in JA's hearing, especially since you are on the witch hunt of calling JA a liar.

Further, to get the DVD and quote SG is not going to have anything to do with how JA received what he heard. That is why I can say it won't matter what SG said. It is how JA received what was said.

SG can quote Maxwell accurately and JA can receive what is being quoted in a totally different way than how SG was trying to present it.

I don't know why you can't understand that. Do you know why book clubs are so interesting? Because all of the people read the same book and come together to discuss what they understood the author to be saying. Does that make them all liars when they don't agree on major points? No, it is the impression they received from the text.

[n david]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Only if it's an intentional misquote or misrepresentation of what was said. Since JA was speaking directly to the man who quoted it and others who heard him, it's highly unlikely that he was trying to lie about it. He may have gotten it wrong, he may have misunderstood the context and paraphrased it badly, but lying about it? Come on.

I didn't say if it was misquoted or misrepresented. I wrote if the person didn't even say it at all, is it a lie. How is that not clear? This is what I teach my 4 year old daughter.

If a person claims someone said something they did not say -- at all, in any way, shape, form, etc -- is that a lie?

As uncomfortable as it may be for some, yes, it's a lie.

Maybe it's because of past experience that I'm less willing than others to excuse it or explain it away.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Stop twisting the things I have said. I didn't say "I don't care what SG said."

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I took it all as collective. If you agree with not being blamed for people sinning, then you are agreeing with the idiot comment as well. After all, that is where the being blamed for people sinning stems from.
It's not quite simple. Fishing is speculative. You present it as an evil intent of manipulation and I don't believe all ministers do that. Sometimes they are excited and sometimes it is just habit.
No, it means what he said, "and I KNOW that came from John Maxwell because I heard it". Here he is not placing the blame on the minister who repeated it.
IOW, I take him to be referencing the quote did not originate with the minister in question, thus giving me the impression that he was referencing the quote. When he said "You're an idiot", I took him to be referring to Maxwell and I still do.
I also took his apology for embarrassing the minister in question, who he never named, and not necessarily that he called him the idiot. It may possibly be a misunderstanding. And it certainly was a horrible way to embarrass himself and the minister.
Listen to what I am actually saying or I am going to shoot YOU in the derriere.
I SAID JA either got something else out of the quote or the minister misquoted Maxwell. Do you know EXACTLY what the minister said - word for word? Either way, it doesn't really matter. JA got an impression of the quote, whether in or out of context, and expounded on the way he RECEIVED the quote when he heard it. He has a right to do that. It is his opinion and how the comment came across to HIS ears.
Sorry, the "you're" doesn't necessarily mean he is not referring to Maxwell. When I heard it the first time, that was my impression - he was referring to Maxwell's quote. And again, whether it was in or out of context, it is how JA received it when he heard it. Maybe all he heard was - it's the minister's fault. Apparently, that is what he felt he heard from the message.
Yes, please order the DVD's. It won't matter what it says. JA already allowed us to know the impression he received from the text given. That isn't going to change. He responded to what he heard.
Okay, I am with Ferdinand -

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I am saying that you were not there, I was not there, JA said "I hear it", and expounded on what he heard. So, IMO, at that point my assessment is that he commented on what he heard because he didn't agree with it. One person can say, "This is what I said", and another can say, "But this is what I heard from what you said." At that point the argument is moot, which is why I can say, "It doesn't matter what SG said."
I am not going to sit here all day doing a back and forth with you, David.

Your full, unedited quotes...

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by n david

No I don't have ill will towards the man. I can call someone out over their behavior and not have ill will towards them. You may not be able to, that's your prerogative. You refuse to even say he was wrong for his attack. Again, that's your prerogative.

I do refuse to attack him. I'm not going to cloud over his life's ministry with something he has already apologized for. And since he has apologized, why would I want to continue attacking him? That doesn't make sense to me.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by n david

I didn't say if it was misquoted or misrepresented. I wrote if the person didn't even say it at all, is it a lie. How is that not clear? This is what I teach my 4 year old daughter.

If a person claims someone said something they did not say -- at all, in any way, shape, form, etc -- is that a lie?

As uncomfortable as it may be for some, yes, it's a lie.

Maybe it's because of past experience that I'm less willing than others to excuse it or explain it away.

I think it's really odd that this has been expanded into the possibility of JA lying. First of all, that's a more serious accusation and I think you should have precise information before you even suggest it. Secondly, and more to your point: Yes, if someone purposely says someone said something KNOWING they didn't actually say it, that's a lie. What does that have to do with anything? You don't know that JA did that. He may have heard wrong or THOUGHT he heard something or misunderstand the context and paraphrased it badly. Any number of possibilities are more believable than him deliberately lying in front of everyone. You're really reaching with this, IMO. Why? The other thing has been pretty much settled, so why are you so concerned with convincing people that he did something else wrong? (Other than insulting Stan Gleason)

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by n david

Your full, unedited quotes...

Thank you. Now you can see that I NEVER said,

"I DON'T CARE WHAT SG SAID!"

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Further, to get the DVD and quote SG is not going to have anything to do with how JA received what he heard. That is why I can say it won't matter what SG said. It is how JA received what was said.

But if SG didn't say what JA claims he said, where is JA getting it from? You keep writing it doesn't matter what SG said...because JA's brain thought he said something else.

And why call SG an idiot if SG didn't say what JA interpreted from Maxwell.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Thank you. Now you can see that I NEVER said,

"I DON'T CARE WHAT SG SAID!"

Oh good grief. You're arguing semantics. Please. It's the same difference.

The intent is the same.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by n david

But if SG didn't say what JA claims he said, where is JA getting it from? You keep writing it doesn't matter what SG said...because JA's brain thought he said something else.

And why call SG an idiot if SG didn't say what JA interpreted from Maxwell.

First of allllllllll, you don't have SG's quote. Second of allllll, it appears that what was said, in front of everyone, means that JA didn't agree with the quote.

You are the one saying he is lying - PROVE IT or just be quiet, David.

You have misrepresented a lot of what I have said, twisting my words and cropping out my points of explanation. You seem to be accusing JA of what you have been doing here. And you are doing it to win an argument you have no evidence to win.