End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Those...they.... (men and women)....went everywhere preaching the word....

No Sister Alvear, the women were in prison, just like this text specifically says....sigh .

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Do you thing the ladies went off to some corner and had a knitting party? I would think they were doing what Clement was doing in (Phil. 4:2-3). And note carefully what the apostle says with regard to these ladies of the early church.:..“And I entreat you also, true yokefellow, help those WOMEN who LABORED WITH ME in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other of my fellow laborers, whose names are in the book of life” (Phil 4:3)...

Philippians 4:2-3
GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
2 I encourage both Euodia and Syntyche to have the attitude the Lord wants them to have. 3 Yes, I also ask you, Syzugus, my true partner, to help these women. They fought beside me to spread the Good News along with Clement and the rest of my coworkers, whose names are in the Book of Life.

When he describes the ministry of Euodia and Syntyche, Paul uses a couple of the same terms he had previously applied to Timothy and Epaphroditus. Paul writes that Euodia and Syntyche had contended[3] together with him (literally) “in the Gospel”. Earlier in the same letter, Paul had also described Timothy as someone who had served with him “in the Gospel” (Php 2:22). Paul goes on to refer to Euodia and Syntyche as his “co-workers”. Earlier, Paul had also referred to Epaphroditus as his “co-worker” (Php 2:25).[4] Thus, according to Paul, the ministries of these women were comparable to the ministries of the men, Timothy and Epaphroditus.

So my dear friend men and women went everywhere preaching....

Here is the lexical definition of the Greek verb translated "labored together" in Phil. 4.3:

"συναθλέω, συνάθλω; 1 aorist συνήθλησα; to strive at the same time with another: with a dative commodi (cf. Winer's Grammar, § 31, 4), for something, Philippians 1:21; τίνι ἐν τίνι, together with one in something, Philippians 4:3. (universally, to help, assist, Diodorus 3, 4.)



Here is the lexical data on the Greek adjective translated "fellow workers":


συνεργός, συνεργόν (σύν and ἘΡΓΩ) (from Pindar), Euripides, Thucydides down, a companion in work, fellow-worker (Vulg.adjutor (Philippians 2:25; 3 John 1:8 co-operator)): in the N. T. with a genitive of the person, one who labors with another in furthering the cause of Christ, Romans 16:3, 9, 21; Philippians 2:25; Philippians 4:3; (1 Thessalonians 3:2 Rec.); Philemon 1:1, 24; Θεοῦ, one whom God employs as an assistant, as it were (a fellow-worker with God), 1 Thessalonians 3:2 (G L text WH marginal reading but with τοῦ Θεοῦ in brackets; Rec. et al. διάκονον, which see 1). plural: 1 Corinthians 3:9; with the genitive of the thing (a joint-promoter (A. V. helper)), συνεργοί ἐσμεν τῆς χαρᾶς, we labor with you to the end that we may rejoice in your Christian state, 2 Corinthians 1:24. εἰς ὑμᾶς (my) fellow-worker to you-ward, in reference to you, 2 Corinthians 8:23; εἰς τήν βασιλείαν τοῦ Θεοῦ, for the advancement of the kingdom of God, Colossians 4:11; τῇ ἀλήθεια, for (the benefit of) the truth (others render (so R. V.) 'with the truth'; see Westcott at the passage), 3 John 1:8. (2 Macc. 8:7 2Macc. 14:5.)



Here is the actual Greek text, along with exact morphology: http://biblehub.com/text/philippians/4-3.htm


As you can see, there's absolutely nothing in these lexical definitions or syntax that even hints that women were "preaching & teaching" in the churches - that is supplied by the "women-preacher" camp & not the actual text itself .



The Greek verb & adjective simply denotes helpers, just as my wife is my helper in the gospel, but she is not a "woman-preacher." Sorry Sister, it simply will not hold up to exegetical scrutiny (& never will) .

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Psalm 68:11
The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it.
I quote KATHARINE BUSHNELL [1855 – 1946] :
“David himself ordered the appointment of men among women to prophesy in song. Moreover, David and the captains of the host separated to the service of the sons of Asaph, Heman, and Jeduthun, who should prophesy with harps, with psalteries, and with cymbals . . .And, God gave Heman fourteen sons and three daughters. All these were under the hands of their father for song in the House of the Lord with cymbals, psalteries, and harps for the service of the House of God. (I Chron. 25:1, 5, 6)
But, it was not alone for music that women prophesied. David in prophetic vision sees that “The Lord giveth the word: the women that publish the tidings are a great host.” (Psalm 68:11). Not only were women permitted to preach the tidings but commanded in the Old Testament to do so when the Gospel dispensation opened. The prophecy in the Psalms was hidden from view for a long time by incorrect translation. The revisers have given us its true sense. Had they been willing to translate with equal fairness another passage, we should have had more light on this subject. By comparing this passage in the Psalms with one in Isaiah (40:9), we discover that they employ in the original one and the same word in the same part of speech, participial in each instance, for the word translated in the Psalm, “publish the tidings.” Both are in the feminine gender, the only difference, in fact, being that one word is singular and the other plural in number.
The chapter in Isaiah in which this verse appears opens with a commandment to comfort My people because their warfare is ended. Then follow the words, “The voice of one crying in the wilderness,” indicating with certainty the period to which the prophecy relates. Then at the 9th verse occur words which, if translated with the same spirit of fairness as at Psalm 68:11, would read in English, “O woman that publishest good tidings: to Zion, get thee up into the high mountain; O woman, that publishest good tidings to Jerusalem, lift up thy voice with strength lift: it up, be not afraid; say, unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!” Dr. Adam Clarke, in his commentary, prints some interesting notes on this passage. Not only was woman, then, permitted to publish, the tidings under the Old Covenant, but also she was commanded, under the Old, to do so at the opening of the New, and it was prophesied under the Old that she should do so both by Joel and by David.” (God’s Word to Women, Katharine Bushnell)
Psalm 68:11, other translations
Psalm 68:11 (ESV)
The Lord gives the word;
the women who announce the news are a great host:
Psalm 68:11 (EXB)
The Lord gave the command,
 and a great ·army [or company of women] told the news:
Psalm 68:11 (GNT)
The Lord gave the command,
 and many women carried the news:
Psalm 68:11 (NET) |
The Lord speaks; 
many, many women spread the good news.
Isaiah 40 prophesies the preaching of the gospel:
Isaiah 40:9
O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!
Adam Clarkes’ commentary on Isaiah 40:9 is interesting.
“O Zion, that bringest good tidings “O daughter, that bringest glad tidings to Zion”" – That the true construction of the sentence is this, which makes Zion the receiver, not the publisher, of the glad tidings, which latter has been the most prevailing interpretation, will, I think, very clearly appear, if we rightly consider the image itself, and the custom and common practice from which it is taken. I have added the word daughter to express the feminine gender of the Hebrew participle, which I know not how to do otherwise in our language; and this is absolutely necessary in order to ascertain the image. For the office of announcing and celebrating such glad tidings as are here spoken of, belongs peculiarly to the women.
On occasion of any great public success, a signal victory, or any other joyful event, it was usual for the women to gather together, and with music, dances, and songs, to publish and celebrate the happy news. Thus after the passage of the Red Sea, Miriam, and all the women, with timbrels in their hands, formed a chorus, and joined the men in their triumphant song, dancing, and throwing in alternately the refrain or burden of the song:- “Sing ye to JEHOVAH, for he is greatly exalted; The horse and his rider hath he cast into the sea.” Exod. xv. 20, 21.
So Jephthah’s daughter collected a chorus or virgins, and with dances and songs came out to meet her father, and to celebrate his victory, Judg. xi. 34. After David’s conquest of Goliath, “all the women came out of the cities of Israel singing and dancing to meet Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of music; ” and, forming themselves into two choruses, they sang alternately:- “Saul has slain his thousands: And David his ten thousands.” 1 Sam. xviii. 6, 7.
And this gives us the true sense of a passage in the sixty- eighth Psalm, which has frequently been misunderstood:- “JEHOVAH gave the word, (that is, the joyful news,) The women, who published the glad tidings, were a great company; The kings of mighty armies did flee, did flee: And even the matron, who stayed at home, shared the spoil.” The word signifying the publishers of glad tidings is the same, and expressed in the same form by the feminine participle, as in this place, and the last distich is the song which they sang. So in this place, JEHOVAH having given the word by his prophet, the joyful tidings of the restoration of Zion, and of God’s returning to Jerusalem, (see chap. lii. 8,) the women are exhorted by the prophet to publish the joyful news with a loud voice from eminences, whence they might best be heard all over the country; and the matter and burden of their song was to be, “Behold your God! ” See on Psa. lxviii.

68 Let God arise, let His enemies be scattered,
And let those who hate Him flee before Him.
2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away;
As wax melts before the fire,
So let the wicked perish before God.
3 But let the righteous be glad; let them exult before God;
Yes, let them rejoice with gladness.

4 Sing to God, sing praises to His name;
Lift up a song for Him who rides through the deserts,
Whose name is the Lord, and exult before Him.

5 A father of the fatherless and a judge for the widows,
Is God in His holy habitation.
6 God makes a home for the lonely;
He leads out the prisoners into prosperity,
Only the rebellious dwell in a parched land.

7 O God, when You went forth before Your people,
When You marched through the wilderness, Selah.
8 The earth quaked; The heavens also dropped rain at the presence of God;
Sinai itself quaked at the presence of God, the God of Israel.
9 You shed abroad a plentiful rain, O God;
You confirmed Your inheritance when it was parched.

10 Your creatures settled in it;
You provided in Your goodness for the poor, O God.

11 The Lord gives the command;
The women who proclaim the good tidings are a great host:





This is about the fourth time I've shown you that these passages are merely celebrating God's victory over His enemies & the women simply declare that God was vindicating the righteous. How on earth you're extracting a NT "woman-preacher" from this is mind-boggling ??



But, as usual (which is the very reason I did not even want to bother), you'll just plod along copying & pasting the same ol' material that's been refuted over-over-over-over-over-over-over-over-over-over-over-over & - OVER .



But, hey, while we're quoting from the OT regarding women in leadership:

O My people! Their oppressors are children,
And women rule over them.
O My people! Those who guide you lead you astray
And confuse the direction of your paths (Isaiah 3.12; NASB).

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

“And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.” (Acts 18:26).

Apollos is “expounded” to by a man and woman named Pricilla and Aquila. If the woman was not to teach a man at all, then Apollos would have sinned in listening to a woman “expound” to him “the way of God more perfectly”. If women were not to be used in instructing a man being in violation of 1 Timothy 2:12, then Priscilla would have disobeyed the ordinances of God. However, we find no reproof or correction for her in the Word of God, but she did in truth obey God in instructing the man along with her husband. Priscilla was in right standing with her husband as her head and still preached and instructed Apollos in the way. The name mentioned first in scripture has the dominance in speaking usually being the man mentioned first then the wife. However, Priscilla is mentioned first before her husband in Acts 18:1-4; Acts 18:18-28; Romans 16:3,4; 1 Corinthians 16:19; and 2 Timothy 2:14.

Umm, okay? This is a home Bible study with a husband & wife - not a woman "preaching-teaching" men in a church setting ?


My wife & I do this allll the time (just did it last night in fact) - what do you think this proves or disproves?


"The name mentioned first in scripture has the dominance in speaking " - You can't be serious (well, never mind)? So, you're saying (actually copying) that the woman was "dominant" over her husband ?


Behold the very face of feminism & humanism .

[Sister Alvear]

Originally Posted by rdp

no sister alvear, the women were in prison, just like this text specifically says....sigh .

so all the women were in prision?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

now back to Clement....

Indeed, years later when Paul wrote his epistle to the Philippians, it is interesting and perhaps quite telling that the only individuals he mentioned by name were two women, Euodias and Syntyche, and one man named
(Phil. 4:2-3). And note carefully what the apostle says with regard to these three characters:..“And I entreat you also, true yokefellow, help those WOMEN who LABORED WITH ME in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other of my fellow laborers, whose names are in the book of life” (Phil 4:3).

You will see that Paul makes no distinction among Clement, Euodias, and Syntyche... All of them are considered as those who labored together with Paul in preaching the gospel... The Greek word rendered labored in verse 3 means to wrestle in company with... The wording in the passage clearly indicates that all of these believer, male and female alike, were engaged side-by-side in preaching, teaching, counseling, and watching over the ministerial work that was being accomplished in that part of the world.


Already addressed the Greek terms here, which defines as "helpers" (an apt role for women) - the women were not beheaded, beaten, in jail, etc. "at Paul's side" .



Anyone who believes that a woman is forbidden by the Almighty to teach had better take the issue up with Him personally,


Oh, you mean anyone such as the Apostle Paul:


New International Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

New Living Translation
I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

English Standard Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

New American Standard Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

King James Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent.

International Standard Version
Moreover, in the area of teaching, I am not allowing a woman to instigate conflict toward a man. Instead, she is to remain calm.

NET Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For I do not allow a woman to teach, neither to usurp over a man, but she should be quiet;

GOD'S WORD® Translation
I don't allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. Instead, she should be quiet.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over a mature man, but to be at rest.

King James 2000 Bible
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American King James Version
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American Standard Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.

Darby Bible Translation
but I do not suffer a woman to teach nor to exercise authority over man, but to be in quietness;

English Revised Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Webster's Bible Translation
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Weymouth New Testament
I do not permit a woman to teach, nor have authority over a man, but she must remain silent.

World English Bible
But I don't permit a woman to teach, nor to exercise authority over a man, but to be in quietness.



Actually, the polar opposite is true, anyone who thinks women can "preach-teach" in the church better take it up with the Almighty - since He's the One who expressly forbid it !




because in the case of Priscilla, she was gifted as a teacher and she actively taught as one... It is quite obvious that Paul thought highly of both her and her husband, for he says in Romans 16:“Greet Priscilla and Aquila my HELPERS in Christ Jesus: who for my life laid down THEIR OWN NECKS: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also ALL THE CHURCHES OF THE GENTILES... Likewise greet the church that is IN THEIR HOUSE” (Rom. 16:3-5)...The Greek word for helpers in verse 3 is sunergos, and it means co-laborer, companion in labor, laborer together with...

I've shown you over & over & over & over that this Greek adjective is lexically defined as "one who labors with another in furthering the cause of Christ" or "a helper" http://biblehub.com/greek/4904.htm - Just as my wife "labors" with me "in furthering the cause of Christ." But, specifically where do you see anything at all regarding women "teaching" or "preaching" to men in a church-setting??


Respectfully, you're once again swatting at something that's not there Sister Alvear (something EVERY "women-preacher" is forced to do).

[Sister Alvear]

You seem so obsessed about women teaching in the church? Have you forgotten millions do not have a church? It is ok to teach in a home but not in a church?

[Sister Alvear]

So your wife sits and says nothing in a Bible study in someone's home?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

It does not mean peon, babysitter, table server, or maid!!.. When Paul says that Priscilla and Aquila risked their own necks to save his life, this has to be a reference to major involvement in the difficult work in which the apostle himself was engaged... These two believers were willing to host an assembly in their home in Rome, and yet travel across the sea to foreign lands hundreds and hundreds of miles away, preaching and teaching the gospel message to the Gentiles...


And how does any of this interact with the very careful exegesis I've presented of I Timothy 2.11-3.15 over & over & over? Just because a husband & wife host a church in their house, how on earth does this equate to a women expositing from the Scriptures to men in a church-setting? Especially when the same Paul expressly forbid it!?


Hmm, I suppose if ol' Bro. Bob & Sis. Sue hold meetings in their home, Sis. Sue should now be automatically classified in the 5-fold ministry !


Basicly the same thing I have done for the past 46 years on the mission field...sowing the gospel seed....

And I greatly rejoice in your outreach efforts, but how does this interact with the Biblical prohibitions regarding women in the church "preaching" to men?



New International Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

New Living Translation
I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

English Standard Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

New American Standard Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

King James Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent.

International Standard Version
Moreover, in the area of teaching, I am not allowing a woman to instigate conflict toward a man. Instead, she is to remain calm.

NET Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For I do not allow a woman to teach, neither to usurp over a man, but she should be quiet;

GOD'S WORD® Translation
I don't allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. Instead, she should be quiet.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over a mature man, but to be at rest.

King James 2000 Bible
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American King James Version
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American Standard Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.

Darby Bible Translation
but I do not suffer a woman to teach nor to exercise authority over man, but to be in quietness;

English Revised Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Webster's Bible Translation
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Weymouth New Testament
I do not permit a woman to teach, nor have authority over a man, but she must remain silent.

World English Bible
But I don't permit a woman to teach, nor to exercise authority over a man, but to be in quietness.

[Sister Alvear]

Wow...I am amazed at the answer that ALL the women were in prision...when the Bible says men and women....3 But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison.
Philip in Samaria
4 Those who had been scattered preached the word wherever they went