Well, the truth is, we don't know you, don't know how you acted, who you talked to and what you talked about - as a leader.
I just don't see how you, as a leader, could think some people, who hold their beliefs so strongly, would think they would pat you on the back for your decision. This is part of their truth they cling to as a consecration in their service to God. It's just as much a part of them as being spirit filled.
You are, in effect, saying, "Hey, it's just not necessary, folks." It's almost a slap in the face to some. That is a startling realization to them. It's a lie to them.
I would focus more on their thought pattern than their actions. It's really the only way to remain compassionate, on your part, in this situation. It's like, in a way, analyzing why a child is acting out. Find out what is wrong so you can best understand how to deal with them.
If I know about the love of Christ, then I know that I must love and pray for them anyway, regardless of what they are doing to me. I think you have said you have and are doing that. There is nothing else you can do. And we are praying with you.
And the folks being mean, they need to have more confidence that God loves more than they ever could and if you are wrong, you need to find out for yourself. I'm not saying you are making a mistake, I'm just saying that we need to allow people to have room to make mistakes. Some people must find out for themselves and we need to allow it to happen. Not encouraging mistakes, but knowing some personalities must test and try the waters. If we hold them, their inner struggle will only increase. It's like a puppy that wants to get off of your lap and run. He will wiggle and wiggle until you let him go.
And I'm with Ferd, just because we don't talk about things, doesn't mean we haven't experienced or felt hurt, pain and rejection. I could tell you some stories, but I don't need to. I will tell you this, I have prayed this prayer, "Jesus, please help me not to hate." I fear anger and hate more than anything in this world. It is an awful spawn.
In every situation, I went to God and He loved me, comforted me, and showed me how to keep walking. He is altogether lovely!
So what did he do 'wrong' in your critical estimation: talking about it? Complaining to us? Leaving in the first place? Not sure of the ire he's drawn from some of you. As much as you question him, I question that all the more.
Well, the truth is, we don't know you, don't know how you acted, who you talked to and what you talked about - as a leader.
I just don't see how you, as a leader, could think some people, who hold their beliefs so strongly, would think they would pat you on the back for your decision. This is part of their truth they cling to as a consecration in their service to God. It's just as much a part of them as being spirit filled.
You are, in effect, saying, "Hey, it's just not necessary, folks." It's almost a slap in the face to some. That is a startling realization to them. It's a lie to them.
I would focus more on their thought pattern than their actions. It's really the only way to remain compassionate, on your part, in this situation. It's like, in a way, analyzing why a child is acting out. Find out what is wrong so you can best understand how to deal with them.
If I know about the love of Christ, then I know that I must love and pray for them anyway, regardless of what they are doing to me. I think you have said you have and are doing that. There is nothing else you can do. And we are praying with you.
And the folks being mean, they need to have more confidence that God loves more than they ever could and if you are wrong, you need to find out for yourself. I'm not saying you are making a mistake, I'm just saying that we need to allow people to have room to make mistakes. Some people must find out for themselves and we need to allow it to happen. Not encouraging mistakes, but knowing some personalities must test and try the waters. If we hold them, their inner struggle will only increase. It's like a puppy that wants to get off of your lap and run. He will wiggle and wiggle until you let him go.
And I'm with Ferd, just because we don't talk about things, doesn't mean we haven't experienced or felt hurt, pain and rejection. I could tell you some stories, but I don't need to. I will tell you this, I have prayed this prayer, "Jesus, please help me not to hate." I fear anger and hate more than anything in this world. It is an awful spawn.
In every situation, I went to God and He loved me, comforted me, and showed me how to keep walking. He is altogether lovely!
Pressing on....
I am not trying not to be disrespectful but would you please READ what I have WRITTEN. I in NO WAY expected people to pat me on the back and say "Well son, were happy for you..have fun" NO, but I expect the elders of my church and some of my best friends to still show me Brotherly Love and be kind to me.
Its ok to disagree with me and even be upset with my decisions but that does not give you the right to bash my wife and I because we see things differntly..I mean if they really think we are hell bound dont you think they would show us the same MERCY God would show...I cant imagine them really thinking this way of acting would really keep us there.
I don't see the harm in talking about it - maybe someone might feel guilty for acting that way and realize that it's not their responsibility to pass judgement on those that do not agree with them.
I'm not sure I would call it passing judgment. When we all hold truths that are our gauge of making it to Eternity, we may take it personally if someone tries to tell us we are wrong.
I think the best thing is to realize that God has the heart of every soul that He created and it is our responsibility to pray, love and have compassion, whether we agree or not.
And being fair, we also don't know if there have been any words spoken by 192281, during his transition, that may have possibly caused some hurt or been offensive to some.
I'm not sure I would call it passing judgment. When we all hold truths that are our gauge of making it to Eternity, we may take it personally if someone tries to tell us we are wrong.
I think the best thing is to realize that God has the heart of every soul that He created and it is our responsibility to pray, love and have compassion, whether we agree or not.
And being fair, we also don't know if there have been any words spoken by 192281, during his transition, that may have possibly caused some hurt or been offensive to some.
This is true you dont know, possibly because you have not read this thread. I only came here to vent because I wanted to make sure i didnt let it build up and let it out to someone at the church. I have only confided in my wife over my feelings...and obviously that is ok.
I would never want to show disrespect to my Pastor or the church. NO matter the feelings they have towards me I very much love them. The UPC church I attend currently has given me an amazing foundation that I will always cherish and be grateful for.
I'm not sure I would call it passing judgment. When we all hold truths that are our gauge of making it to Eternity, we may take it personally if someone tries to tell us we are wrong.
I think the best thing is to realize that God has the heart of every soul that He created and it is our responsibility to pray, love and have compassion, whether we agree or not.
And being fair, we also don't know if there have been any words spoken by 192281, during his transition, that may have possibly caused some hurt or been offensive to some.
Lol - - if this was an isolated incident I would agree with you, but PO - - it's happened to me and I've seen it happen to many others. I've just witnessed it between two UPC churches - one has been forbidden to have anything to do with the other because some the ladies in one church wear pants and cut their hair.
Of course, it's passing judgement. You no longer believe like we do, so you are lost. What else would you call it?
Misdirected concern?
You've reversed it - - 19 hasn't told them they are wrong - he's just saying it's not right for him. They are the ones telling him he's lost now.
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
So what did he do 'wrong' in your critical estimation: talking about it? Complaining to us? Leaving in the first place? Not sure of the ire he's drawn from some of you. As much as you question him, I question that all the more.
I agree. There has been something of an over compensation here, IMHO.
We don't need to know every detail of One Niner's conversation over the last few months. I think we've all been in his shoes already. Personally, I've been in both his shoes and the shoes of those he describes at his soon-to-be former church (if that's the way things work out).
In the church I last attended, a friend announced to our small group that she was changing churches. She gave her reasons (which I thought were nutty!), and, far as I know, nobody (not even me) said a word against her or her decision, either to her or behind her back.
Just sayin'.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
PO - - you wake up tonight and God has visited you in a dream and revealed to you that cutting your hair is okay. So, tomorrow you go cut it and show up at church Sunday morning with your new do.
Sis. Sour comes up to you crying and just heartbroken that you've done this and says, "you know you've been taught better than that. I can't believe you are willing to go to hell over your hair. Since you've chosen this path, my husband and I can no longer fellowship with you - you are a backslider and light and dark can't have dinner together anymore."
God let you know what you are doing is okay with him - you have peace about that.
You've said nothing to Sis. Sour to make her upset with you. Yet, she's cut you off.
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
Pressing on....
I am not trying not to be disrespectful but would you please READ what I have WRITTEN. I in NO WAY expected people to pat me on the back and say "Well son, were happy for you..have fun" NO, but I expect the elders of my church and some of my best friends to still show me Brotherly Love and be kind to me.
Its ok to disagree with me and even be upset with my decisions but that does not give you the right to bash my wife and I because we see things differntly..I mean if they really think we are hell bound dont you think they would show us the same MERCY God would show...I cant imagine them really thinking this way of acting would really keep us there.
I did read what you said and I still think that I don't know why you are shocked. You have challenged the truth they hold dear. Can you see that?
Of course it's an unhappy and unfortunate situation, but I know from experience, talking about it doesn't really do any good. The only people that help us, generally, are those who agree with our plight. Review this thread and see if that is not true.
My husband and I have gone through things where we have both said, "Okay, let's stop talking about it, it's not helping." LOL!
Our oldest son and DIL had a couple leave their church who bashed them all around town. First big hurt that came her way, my DIL called me and I told her to take to God in prayer and don't talk about it to anyone, but our son - who, of course, is her pastor. LOL! I told her to call us anytime, we were here, but she knows that she needs to keep praying, keep singing, and keep leading.
We will never escape offense. Offense will come.
That shouldn't surprise us. But, yes, it does disappoint.
I did read what you said and I still think that I don't know why you are shocked. You have challenged the truth they hold dear. Can you see that?
Of course it's an unhappy and unfortunate situation, but I know from experience, talking about it doesn't really do any good. The only people that help us, generally, are those who agree with our plight. Review this thread and see if that is not true.
My husband and I have gone through things where we have both said, "Okay, let's stop talking about it, it's not helping." LOL!
Our oldest son and DIL had a couple leave their church who bashed them all around town. First big hurt that came her way, my DIL called me and I told her to take to God in prayer and don't talk about it to anyone, but our son - who, of course, is her pastor. LOL! I told her to call us anytime, we were here, but she knows that she needs to keep praying, keep singing, and keep leading.
We will never escape offense. Offense will come.
That shouldn't surprise us. But, yes, it does disappoint.
Ok if you want to use the word disappoint then that is the one I will use.
I am so disappointed that the people I love and hold very dear to my heart would treat me like someone who has murdered their children and condemn me to a life of Hell because I MIGHT chose to live a life differently than them.
I understand their feelings and I understand they are confused by what Im doing but Im just DISAPPOINTED they would take it to the level of publicly bashing me and saying hurtful things to me and my wife.
Linear Mode
