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  #301  
Old 10-14-2016, 05:39 PM
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CC1 CC1 is offline
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shazeep View Post
um...i think DB meant something else there, maybe. You can still get Tab?
Uh...I think I know exactly what he meant. I am not stupid.
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"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"

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"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"

Last edited by CC1; 10-14-2016 at 06:08 PM.
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  #302  
Old 10-14-2016, 05:45 PM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!

ok, well it's a forum...
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  #303  
Old 10-15-2016, 04:39 PM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!

Timetable:
The IMA was formed in the 50's the Latter Rain guys said the UPC days were numbered doubted it would survive 25 years but at the most 50 yrs.
The AMF was formed 1968 Icabob was written on the door well the AMF is on life support gasping for breath.
The Texas Two and company left in the 70's they were going to shake the world the UPC was drying up.
The Libs left in the 90's over the AS the end had come!!! Well......
Both the WPF and the Pontiac crew left I think both thought they would make a major wave just a little splash!!
I am not nor ever have been UPC but some folks are delusional.
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  #304  
Old 10-15-2016, 04:49 PM
Sarah Sarah is offline
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tstew View Post
I tried.
I didn't get to hear it, but my husband said it was wonderful!
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  #305  
Old 10-15-2016, 05:11 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shazeep View Post
ah, so alla sudden it's not clear that i asked a question, maybe even there was no question, or i was speaking in tongues or dreaming, who knows, right.
Timothy Leary's dead? No, he's on the outside looking in.

What does that meaneth?
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  #306  
Old 10-15-2016, 05:14 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
Timetable:
The IMA was formed in the 50's the Latter Rain guys said the UPC days were numbered doubted it would survive 25 years but at the most 50 yrs.
The AMF was formed 1968 Icabob was written on the door well the AMF is on life support gasping for breath.
The Texas Two and company left in the 70's they were going to shake the world the UPC was drying up.
The Libs left in the 90's over the AS the end had come!!! Well......
Both the WPF and the Pontiac crew left I think both thought they would make a major wave just a little splash!!
I am not nor ever have been UPC but some folks are delusional.
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"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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  #307  
Old 10-15-2016, 10:35 PM
Barb Barb is offline
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
Timetable:
The IMA was formed in the 50's the Latter Rain guys said the UPC days were numbered doubted it would survive 25 years but at the most 50 yrs.
The AMF was formed 1968 Icabob was written on the door well the AMF is on life support gasping for breath.
The Texas Two and company left in the 70's they were going to shake the world the UPC was drying up.
The Libs left in the 90's over the AS the end had come!!! Well......
Both the WPF and the Pontiac crew left I think both thought they would make a major wave just a little splash!!
I am not nor ever have been UPC but some folks are delusional.
Pontiac crew? Please explain...
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  #308  
Old 10-15-2016, 10:38 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barb View Post
Pontiac crew? Please explain...
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"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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  #309  
Old 10-15-2016, 11:00 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!

Can we film the operation, is the head dead, yet?
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  #310  
Old 10-16-2016, 12:14 AM
deacon blues deacon blues is offline
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barb View Post
Pontiac crew? Please explain...
In 2008 an invitation only gathering of like-minded and mostly young pastors and ministers and their spouses of the UPC were invited to the UPC church in Auborn Hills, MI (formerly of Pontiac, MI). After the departure of the very conservative elements in 2007 over TV advertising there was some hope that this group (about 60-75 ministers) might be able to have some freedom to convene and discuss off limits topics like traditional Apostolic dress codes and standards. I was invited and attended.

This was new territory for us because a lot of us had lived in fear of the ultra right in the UPC because they often were motivated to try to keep the organization free of anyone who would question the status quo when it came to dress codes and standards of lifestyle. We all knew each other, had often had off the record conversations about our doubts concerning the Biblical basis for many of the traditional standards, but also tried to walk that tightrope of staying in what we had always known, the UPC, and living with a clean conscience. Many of us struggled with the Affirmation Statement. Many of my friends would never sign it with little to no consequence. Others would alter the AS and sign it so as to not sign and be dishonest. Others would sign it and feel conflicted because they knew they could never do what was demanded of the AS.

So we gathered for two days and three nights. We invited Rex Johnson and T F Tenney to talk with us. We advertised it low key, word of mouth, there were no formal invitations mailed out, etc. We wanted a safe place to be honest about how we felt about these issues without being blackballed, black listed, or disciplined for stating our consciences, expressing our doubts, or asking questions. It ended up being three days that were refreshing and encouraging. Everyone there loved the UPC and looked forward to see what we thought was this new day of goodwill and peace to advance the UPC into the 21st century and become relevant to this generation.

It was simply a gathering of like-minded people who wanted to get together, pray, talk, worship, listen, ask questions, and fellowship.

Of course rumors began to circulate that this was a secret gathering to start a new organization. All kinds of wild tales began to spread. We were
preached about for the next year or so at various camp meetings and conferences that year. Reports of the "Pontiac" group being called out by prominent leaders of the UPC from the pulpit were coming back to us by people that were there.

I attended an annual men's conference later that year in my district and pot shots were taken at us from the pulpit. I knew my days in the UPC were numbered. Coupled with a champion of "Apostolic Identity", the man who coined the phrase, working behind the scenes to alienate and isolate me and my church over our lack of standards, I was worn out with it. It was the last UPC event I attended. I and my church remained UPC until 2011 when we formally disaffiliated and I let my license go. In that three year period however, we stopped actively participating in the UPC.

We never tried to form a new organization. We in fact wanted to stay in the UPC. Our hope was that we could "agree to disagree" on the non-essentials but remain united under the One God, Jesus Name message. The UPC after losing the ultra conservatives in 2007 seemed to lurch right trying to prove to its conservative critics that it was going liberal. "Apostolic Identity" became the buzzword and they doubled down on making sure that if you didn't practice, teach, and preach the holiness standards as defined in the UPCI Manual, you should turn in your credentials and leave. So little by little, one by one, we began to leave.

We survived. We found fellowship. Some of us started youth camps and kids camps for our young people. Most of us are doing fine. We got the message and we moved on.

However, I don't believe any of us thought that the UPC would die because we left. I never heard any predictions related to that. I don't think any of us wish the UPC any harm either.
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