Apostolic Feminists

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Newman

WOW... I would tremble to speak of a minister of God/ baptized in Jesus name and filled with the Holy Ghost with such contempt.

Are you so positive that God only annoints those to minister that fit into your thinking? I sure am not convinced of that.

I urge EXTREME caution for anyone that would point to a particular Jesus name/ Holy Ghost filled minister that is not known to be living in sin; and say they are not of God (and perhaps reaching someone that one would never be able to reach otherwise).

Well said.

[Sister Alvear]

I actually heard this statment, " Women who think they are called to preach are queers" I sat there thinking of all the great ladies I know...Sister LaJoyce Martim, Siater A.O. Holmes, Sister Lavada George, Sister Freeman, and on and on...ladies of the past such as Sister Rita Dawson, Sister Mary Williams...no my friend all women that work or have worked in God's harvest are NOT queers or whatever you want to call them...Many of them as they walk through heaven's gate angles will rejoice...
Oh...yes I know a few cases but think of the men that have been caught with other men...or even molesting children...that would not mean that God at some time did call or not call them...
People are human...
Even if you do not believe in women in pulpit ministry there is no reason to say such degrading remarks...let your words be few for you could just speak without even intending to against God's anointed...and then what???????
I may not believe in certain things but I am careful to speak against their calling...
Yes, I am a lady and have gleaned in His vineyards but no I am not ordained by man's hands and have never felt that I needed to be for He called me to be a missionary...

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I actually heard this statment, " Women who think they are called to preach are queers" I sat there thinking of all the great ladies I know...Sister LaJoyce Martim, Siater A.O. Holmes, Sister Lavada George, Sister Freeman, and on and on...ladies of the past such as Sister Rita Dawson, Sister Mary Williams...no my friend all women that work or have worked in God's harvest are NOT queers or whatever you want to call them...Many of them as they walk through heaven's gate angles will rejoice...
Oh...yes I know a few cases but think of the men that have been caught with other men...or even molesting children...that would not mean that God at some time did call or not call them...
People are human...
Even if you do not believe in women in pulpit ministry there is no reason to say such degrading remarks...let your words be few for you could just speak without even intending to against God's anointed...and then what???????
I may not believe in certain things but I am careful to speak against their calling...
Yes, I am a lady and have gleaned in His vineyards but no I am not ordained by man's hands and have never felt that I needed to be for He called me to be a missionary...

Words of wisdom as usual, Sis. Alvera you are a peach of a lady.

Originally Posted by Newman

WOW... I would tremble to speak of a minister of God/ baptized in Jesus name and filled with the Holy Ghost with such contempt.

Are you so positive that God only annoints those to minister that fit into your thinking? I sure am not convinced of that.

I urge EXTREME caution for anyone that would point to a particular Jesus name/ Holy Ghost filled minister that is not known to be living in sin; and say they are not of God (and perhaps reaching someone that one would never be able to reach otherwise).

It was the lawyer comment...wasn't it?

Did you bother to view her clips? She was most definitely in her flesh.

Has she ever been used of God? Perhaps, so has Kay Arthur for that matter and in the same respect: regurgitation...of the Word, respective Doctrines, and the wisdom and clichés of this present world. Doing such doesn't pass for being of God. In that case, every "Christian" can receive such credit to some degree. Sadly, many do, to their own destruction and that of those that follow them.

This basic premise is a general one that I would, after viewing the evidence, assign to Janice without hesitation, but to her credit she didn't invent it, she's simply following the suit of some. The culprit might very well be explained to the simple as arrogance and self-reliance of some in the Ministry. (i.e. the flesh)

Are you so positive that God only anoints those to minister that fit into your thinking? I sure am not convinced of that.

Absolutely not. However, I am so positive that God ONLY anoints those that minister to fit His thinking and purpose. That being said, when one that is believed to be "anointed" gives us Exhibit A,B, & C contrary to, that which is of God, and His Word, then you know that the flesh is in play.

Let us not mistake entertainments, contemporary wisdoms, and custom interpretations for anointing. One of these elements are rare, the rest in too much abundance, and yes...unfortunately...even in Pentecost.

Keep in mind, having had the New Birth Experience doesn't give 'diplomatic' immunity, not in this world, nor the world to come. Neither does it an anointed minister make.

(and perhaps reaching someone that one would never be able to reach otherwise)

What is she reaching them with? Maybe she will appeal to a certain demographic that is likeminded, but what is she reaching them with? What is she teaching? What impression is she responsible for putting upon her demographic that is not of God, yet appealing to the demographic?

Newman, In order to truly reach out to, grab hold of, and truly help save anyone to Christ, it must be with Christ alone, His Way. Else, what are we reaching them with in vain?

Consider the above quote carefully, honestly think about it. What is it really saying? I have to ponder: How foolish have we become to believe and assert that someone, or some group, cannot be reached but by a certain custom way or person(s)?

For example, we do not need feminists to reach feminists, the same as we don't need homosexuals to reach homosexuals. If they cannot be reached with His Way by the people of The Way(singular) then they will be lost. The message is not to custom conform to the lost, to the contrary, it is the lost that needs to be conformed to the Message and the Message Giver who is Christ.

If women are to be truly used of God, it will be done in a Godly way and according to their purpose and function within the Body, not contrary to His Word.

Janice has given us a glimpse of what is not of God. With all due respect, the evidence is on the table, counselor. You all can circle the wagons and like her as much as you want. That is admirable, but it doesn't change the truth, nor diminish the evidence given straight from the source.

I'll resign to my original post on the matter and let the evidence speak for itself. God Bless, Theo.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

It was the lawyer comment...wasn't it?

Did you bother to view her clips? She was most definitely in her flesh.

Has she ever been used of God? Perhaps, so has Kay Arthur for that matter and in the same respect: regurgitation...of the Word, respective Doctrines, and the wisdom and clichés of this present world. Doing such doesn't pass for being of God. In that case, every "Christian" can receive such credit to some degree. Sadly, many do, to their own destruction and that of those that follow them.

This basic premise is a general one that I would, after viewing the evidence, assign to Janice without hesitation, but to her credit she didn't invent it, she's simply following the suit of some. The culprit might very well be explained to the simple as arrogance and self-reliance of some in the Ministry. (i.e. the flesh)

Absolutely not. However, I am so positive that God ONLY anoints those that minister to fit His thinking and purpose. That being said, when one that is believed to be "anointed" gives us Exhibit A,B, & C contrary to, that which is of God, and His Word, then you know that the flesh is in play.

Let us not mistake entertainments, contemporary wisdoms, and custom interpretations for anointing. One of these elements are rare, the rest in too much abundance, and yes...unfortunately...even in Pentecost.

Keep in mind, having had the New Birth Experience doesn't give 'diplomatic' immunity, not in this world, nor the world to come. Neither does it an anointed minister make.

What is she reaching them with? Maybe she will appeal to a certain demographic that is likeminded, but what is she reaching them with? What is she teaching? What impression is she responsible for putting upon her demographic that is not of God, yet appealing to the demographic?

Newman, In order to truly reach out to, grab hold of, and truly help save anyone to Christ, it must be with Christ alone, His Way. Else, what are we reaching them with in vain?

Consider the above quote carefully, honestly think about it. What is it really saying? I have to ponder: How foolish have we become to believe and assert that someone, or some group, cannot be reached but by a certain custom way or person(s)?

For example, we do not need feminists to reach feminists, the same as we don't need homosexuals to reach homosexuals. If they cannot be reached with His Way by the people of The Way(singular) then they will be lost. The message is not to custom conform to the lost, to the contrary, it is the lost that needs to be conformed to the Message and the Message Giver who is Christ.

If women are to be truly used of God, it will be done in a Godly way and according to their purpose and function within the Body, not contrary to His Word.

Janice has given us a glimpse of what is not of God. With all due respect, the evidence is on the table, counselor. You all can circle the wagons and like her as much as you want. That is admirable, but it doesn't change the truth, nor diminish the evidence given straight from the source.

I'll resign to my original post on the matter and let the evidence speak for itself. God Bless, Theo.

Theo- My point wasn't that a certain demographic reaches a certain demographic; but rather a certain personality can get a point across to some individuals that someone else might not be able to.

We can't say that there is only one or two ways to teach or preach. And even the most awful preacher in the world who puts everyone else to sleep might be just the right messenger for little Johnie sitting in the pew who then goes on to evangalize the world.

One may not like a woman's style when delivering what she feels God has given her; but God may nevertheless use her to reach someone that otherwise wouldn't have been reached.

I haven't seen exhibits A and C. And I wouldn't mind carefully talking about points one disagrees with or conduct that they find very unappealing.

However, I am not going to condemn a particular individual and say they are not of God based on my disagreement with their viewpoint and/or delivery when they are out ministering in our churches.

As if those used by God in Scripture didn't have their detracters:

Moses had a foreign wife, oratory and a sibling issues...

Paul had a past and a thorn in the flesh even as he preached deliverance to others...

Peter had impulsive tendencies and wasn't known for his education....

John the Baptist didn't know how to dress and didn't appear to have God's protection...

Mark was a quitter...

Timothy was a half breed...

Esther was Jewish but it wasn't even known...

James insisted on the old paths....

Paul insisted on the new paths...

Etc. etc. etc....

None were perfect with perfect pedigrees and reputations. But God filled the void. Who is to say whom God can use and who is or is not of God? "Therefore, judge nothing before its time, until the Lord come..." (1 Cor 4:5).

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Newman

Theo- My point wasn't that a certain demographic reaches a certain demographic; but rather a certain personality can get a point across to some individuals that someone else might not be able to.

We can't say that there is only one or two ways to teach or preach. And even the most awful preacher in the world who puts everyone else to sleep might be just the right messenger for little Johnie sitting in the pew who then goes on to evangalize the world.

One may not like a woman's style when delivering what she feels God has given her; but God may nevertheless use her to reach someone that otherwise wouldn't have been reached.

I haven't seen exhibits A and C. And I wouldn't mind carefully talking about points one disagrees with or conduct that they find very unappealing.

However, I am not going to condemn a particular individual and say they are not of God based on my disagreement with their viewpoint and/or delivery when they are out ministering in our churches.

As if those used by God in Scripture didn't have their detracters:

Moses had a foreign wife, oratory and a sibling issues...

Paul had a past and a thorn in the flesh even as he preached deliverance to others...

Peter had impulsive tendencies and wasn't known for his education....

John the Baptist didn't know how to dress and didn't appear to have God's protection...

Mark was a quitter...

Timothy was a half breed...

Esther was Jewish but it wasn't even known...

James insisted on the old paths....

Paul insisted on the new paths...

Etc. etc. etc....

None were perfect with perfect pedigrees and reputations. But God filled the void. Who is to say whom God can use and who is or is not of God? "Therefore, judge nothing before its time, until the Lord come..." (1 Cor 4:5).

But none of these characters blatantly violated the clear teaching of Scripture, and none of them aligned themselves with an ungodly ideology like feminism.

[Sister Alvear]

Hosea was quite a person and from the natural point of veiw I really do not think he would recieve too many invitations to preach at most Pentecostal churches especially going around telling GOD told him to do all those "things" he did...
Ez. would have shocked us all naked...
Noah got drunk...
Lot committed incest...
David had a man killed...to cover his sin...

I wonder what color their cards were? Maybe they were those independents...
Abraham he sure had some serious problems...Doubt if he would have made it to conference...

My dear friends we are ALL sinful by nature and if there is any good thing about us it is only by the GRACE of God...

I remember in an airport in Germany there was a Muslim lady all in black, veil and all and all I could see was her eyes...I really felt uneasy for some reason...Sometimes I have often thought how we are like her...It is so easy to pull our robes around us and stare at the world through our veil...and I wonder how many people feel ill at ease around us?

Some of the attitudes the world sees in us are unbecoming to christians...

Who are we to judge another man's servant? God will judge us all....and I am not taking up for sin but I am saying just because someone does not see everything like we do does not mean that person is of the devil.

Someone offered me since I have been home some old tapes of a well known preacher that once firmly taught a very false doctrine. I declined. Any one of us could be wrong on many subjects and no matter how strongly we feel about certain things we still are human and we still could be wrong.

I did not go to the clips or do I know the persons that have been discussed but I refuse to think evil. I will pray for them.

Please, weigh your words...Innocent souls have been destroyed because of careless and selfish preachers...

[Sister Alvear]

and I am not saying those that write here are careless or selfish...I am just using an example of things I do know in other situations.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

But none of these characters blatantly violated the clear teaching of Scripture, and none of them aligned themselves with an ungodly ideology like feminism.

Coonskinner-

1. What clear teaching of Scripture is being violated? I know of at least two women teachers/preachers that have been behind your pulpit (despite not labeling it as such).

2. Can you show me where the feminism ideology is expressed that you speak of? Or define it so I understand for sure where you are coming from?

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Newman

Coonskinner-

1. What clear teaching of Scripture is being violated? I know of at least two women teachers/preachers that have been behind your pulpit (despite not labeling it as such).

2. Can you show me where the feminism ideology is expressed that you speak of? Or define it so I understand for sure where you are coming from?

I don't believe in women pastors, but I do use an occasional lady preacher.

I am talking abouty that "men are stupid" stuff, and other things that i really don't care to openly talk about on the forum.

I need to bow out since there is a name involved here.

Sorry...but I have reasons for my opinion on this particular deal.

I am not against women preachers; I just don't care for overbearing, domineering, man-bashers.