John3 and Romans2: Part2

[donfriesen1]

Does the Lord think I'm a heretic? The peace/Presence in my heart rages against the thought. It is God's testimony.

Jesus said it like this. Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. Does the Lord mean, when he says with what judgment you judge, you will be judged, that He will use our own standards against us or does he mean that others will use our own standards against us? Either way, we should be careful when passing judgments -- that is the gist of what our Lord means.

Judgment day will certainly be a very interesting day, when in love the Lord will wipe away the tears from our eyes, which have come because of the exposure of our many short-comings.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

Does the Lord think I'm a heretic? The peace/Presence in my heart rages against the thought. It is God's testimony.

Jesus said it like this. Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. Does the Lord mean, when he says with what judgment you judge, you will be judged, that He will use our own standards against us or does he mean that others will use our own standards against us? Either way, we should be careful when passing judgments -- that is the gist of what our Lord means.

Judgment day will certainly be a very interesting day, when in love the Lord will wipe away the tears from our eyes, which have come because of the exposure of our many short-comings.

Your teaching was critiqued by book, chapter, and verse. Hence it was judged by the Word. Therefore it was found to be lacking scripturally. That’s all. The day we stand before the Lord in judgement. We can have peace that we used the standard of the Word to try the spirits.

Start a new thread Don, try another topic.

Because you dropped the watermelon on this one.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You sure demand a lot without reciprocating nearly as much, you know that? My apologies to everyone who has been offended because of my lack of response to posts. Plz forgive me.



My contention has been from the beginning that nobody is "going to heaven", that your idea of people going to heaven is at the root of your theological errors. For whatever reason, you did not want to discuss any of that. Yes very true, not wanting a distraction from the topic at hand. The O.N.L.Y. thing I will say is heaven comes to earth. Re21.2.



Good grief, can you not read? My answer was there in the post! Let it be said by all who read, that ESAIAS does make some comments about baptism but what he fails to do is, comment on the following: by his assertion that only those who are born again, of both water and Spirit, by his theology those who have 'only been baptized but not yet receiving the Spirit' will go to hell, though having remission of sin, showing God as unjust. But then if he doesn't respond directly but in code form, then it is possible it was missed.What you want to do is pigeon hole people into a false dichotomy to try and force people to agree with you. I clearly stated how I view people who have been baptized, who have repented, who have (fill in the blank). ANYONE who makes ANY movement toward God is showing the work of God in their life UNTIL they REJECT TRUTH. At which point they either never were following God to begin with or have drawn back unto perdition. It doesn't matter what the "point of contention" is, it only matters if they follow Truth, or turn aside from Truth. At whatever point in a person's journey they turn aside from Truth they demonstrate they are not His sheep. This is a very interesting observation.

Hello? I thought perhaps you missed my answer but the reality appears to be you AVOIDED it to play this game of "nobody answers my questions". Sorry for doing so but it is not my intent that I should waste anyone's time. Hey, why do you think we are here to answer your questions? YOU came here with a teaching. We are the ones who ought to be asking the questions of you. Which we have been. And which you have avoided or outright ignored in many cases.



(Get a load of this guy.) You wouldn't last 60 seconds in a boxing gym. If you did that gym sucks. Relevance to the discussion plz. What makes this time wasting a part of the game? Sir, you have used up all your Federation credits, your wanna be jedi mind tricks don't work on me, and quite honestly you are now slinging bantha poodoo around the thread.



You are so full of yourself it almost makes me chuckle.

When are you gonna get saved? Because I will be straight forward and direct and say BASED ON YOUR STATEMENTS IN THIS THREAD I believe you to be 100% a clear and obvious heretic and are therefore under a strong delusion likely sent by God Himself to make sure you get what you really want - separation from God's Truth. Why? Because you can't stand the Truth.

I PROVED the "Gentiles" in Romans 2 are Israelites descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob who were members of the New Covenant. The Gentiles Paul addresses in Ro2.12-16 need no " " placed around them. Any having the Gospel also have the law. These who don't have the law logic says can't have had the gospel. Thus these, who show the work of the law in their hearts, don't do so from hearing the Gospel nor having the law written in their hearts by the Spirit, though those hearing the gospel and receiving the Spirit do have the Word written on their hearts. Paul says of these in Ro2 that it was 'nature' doing this, and nature would refer most naturally to the nature of the conscience in Man's being. I proved it straight from the Bible, letting the Bible be its own interpreter. I didn't drink your kool-aid so now you just pretend as if everyone is deficient in their moral character because they don't agree with you. And who is the first in this thread that takes an extreme position by labelling someone a heretic for not agreeing with others? Who would that be?

Typical cult behavior, if you ask me. Next you'll be claiming to be the Last Day Prophet of God (position already taken by the way by some guy on shortwave radio).

Your hubris is unentitled and quite frankly you have become boring. You also have no etiquette coming in here and literally insulting everyone who has engaged with you. It's not only boring, but boorish.



Sticks and stones.... Name calling has no part in a serious discussion of the Word. Any reading the posts know who started it if its happened by more than one. The rhetoric has increased. Is this where you start with the swear words?

It is believed that babies go to heaven, though no direct Biblical statment indicates this. But its good deductive reasoning based on Ro5.13, where Paul shows this principle: Those who don't have the Word aren't judged as if they did. Paul is applying this principle to the Gentiles who have no law, in Ro2.12-16.

This is what is seen: 1) Babies who die going to heaven though not born again. 2) Those 'only baptized gaining access to heaven though not born again. 3) Ro2.12-16 showing those who haven't heard the Word going to heaven by a clean conscience, not being born again. Amanah, Dom and ESAIAS contend that only those born again gain access to heaven. I agree that those born again gain access but don't agree that these are the only ones. Any agreeing with Biblical principles agree that babies, clean-conscienced, only baptized also gain access to heaven. Its time to admit to the truth,ESAIAS. Drink the Kool-Aid.

.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by diakonos

He could have saved pages if he would have just posted this video and stated that it sums up his belief.

Don, Billy Graham beat you to it. Deal with it.

Don, start another topic. You have been thoroughly beaten.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Don, Billy Graham beat you to it. Deal with it.

Don, start another topic. Dom, your civil comments are always welcomed, but should you no longer wish to contribute, then what stops you from leaving? You have been thoroughly beaten.

Dom when you, and diakonos and Esaias sent me links of videos, I see nothing where they should be on the page.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Esaias

lol

I see nothing on the page. I see no link to view anything.

Regardless, if I want to know what Dom or diakonos thinks, I ask them, I don't ask Esaias or someone else. Any who thinks anyone but myself speaks for me, or portrays my opinion, might be disappointed to find out in the end that they don't.

What is done here is called guilt by association. Putting me beside someone known guilty and associate me with them, making me appears as guilty as they are, when this may not necessarily be the case. Those who stoop to tactics like this obviously run out of substantial ammunition, desperate for more they rely on cheap tricks.

Good grief, you guys who are seen as heavy weights in AFF. Either fight fair or give up and drink the KOOL-AID and you can use the Word like me to fight your battles. [/U]

[Amanah]

Don, I have the same problem of not being able to see posted videos

Here is the link to the video

https://youtu.be/INPyY0QjgpY?si=cZw7xDXnZD7gqBxy

[Amanah]

Please don't be offended by the term heretic. A heretic refers to an individual who holds beliefs or opinions that deviate from the accepted or orthodox teachings of a particular religion, doctrine, or ideology.

In other words, a heretic could be someone who:

1. Holds unorthodox views or interpretations
2. Challenges or rejects established dogma or authority
3. Proposes alternative ideas
4. Fails to conform to the prevailing norms or standards

No one is proposing anyone be burned at the stake.

[donfriesen1]

I drank the Kool-aid, and still stand, using the principles of the Word to derive and defend my doctrines.

For believing what is shown below I am called by Dom and Esaias: unsaved, a heretic and a cultist. Any who use such labels on one such as I in my beliefs, call into question their own judging methods. Their beliefs are then suspect. Judge me for yourself if I am as they say, by the following beliefs.

This I believe:
1) For those who have heard the Word: Salvation is by faith in what the Lord accomplished for Man, by the shedding of the blood of the Lamb of God. To receive the benefits of what the Lord purchased for Man, they must believe and obey the gospel. Jesus died and was buried and arose again. Any who follow the Lord, receive the benefits by repentance, baptism, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Any self-efforts without faith in the Lord Jesus are attempts at salvation by good works alone, which are filthy rags in God's eyes, failing to gain access to heaven.

2) For those who haven't heard the Word: Paul shows those who haven't heard the Word aren't judged as if they have heard, Ro5.13. Therefore, those who haven't heard the gospel also aren't judged as if they had. In Adam all die, and are dead in sin. Some dead sinners, who haven't heard the Word, may listen to the God-infused "Word", which is God's own internal eternal moral code that resides within his being and transferred to Man (namely, the conscience -- given at conception to all when made in the image of God). Why should these who have no Word but respond to a God-given method, the conscience, motivated to right living by it, be described as attempting to gain heaven by good works? They respond rightly to the only God-given thing they have -- the conscience, when they don't have the Word. This "conscience-Word" directs their heart to right actions, thus showing these with a "faith of sorts" in this "Word". In Ro2.12-16 Paul says these Gentiles who have no Word are showing the work of the Word in their hearts, as clean, justified, and gaining access to heaven, by what Paul calls nature, which is, in the context of the passage, the conscience. The conscience will be used by God at the last judgment, judging those who haven't heard the Word either saved or d.mned.

I also believe: those Christians who say we aren't saved by good works are somewhat hypocritical in saying this. Faith, repentance, baptism, speaking in tongues, living right are all good works necessary for NT salvation. The difference between these good works and the self-righteous good works (that some sinners say will get them entrance to heaven) is faith. Christians do their good works in response to faith in the Word. Thus, it is hypocritical for Amanah, Dom, Esaias to say these Gentiles of Ro2.12-16 are attempting to gain entrance by good works, who act similarly when responding to the conscience. We all are saved by good works, thru faith.

I have not quoted a scripture to support that the conscience is used at the last judgment. Amanah, Dom and Esaias haven't called me out on this lack. Maybe they are asleep at the switch or maybe its because they also believe, as most Christians do, that this is a scriptural reality.

By this silence Amanah, Dom and Esaias show agreement that God uses the conscience to judge. Some of them, by silence suggest that people who are baptized (but not having received the Spirit) go to hell, though forgiven. By silence they agree that God does not d.mn babies though not born again, showing they agree that God uses other methods than the new birth to allow humans access to heaven, but contrary to silence, their pen says the only method to gain entrance to heaven is the new birth. By silence they, some of them at least, say that people like righteous Cornelius, Ac10.2, would have been d.mned had he died the day before he met Peter. Amanah, Dom and Esaias therefore portray Jesus as an unjust God, because they refuse to incorporate into their theology what the Bible and deductive reasoning show of a God who also uses other ways than just the gospel to judge people. They disgrace Jesus and deny the Word by this, which they should stop doing.

-Babies go to heaven, not born again.
-The 'only baptized', not having received the Spirit are forgiven and go to heaven, but not born again.
-Ro2.12-16 shows these justified by a clean conscience going to heaven, not born again. Amanah, Dom and Esaias, by their incomplete theology would say that any not born again go to hell, denying those in the three examples a place in heaven. Thankfully, Jesus does not judge as Amanah, Dom and Esaias do.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Don, I have the same problem of not being able to see posted videos

Here is the link to the video

https://youtu.be/INPyY0QjgpY?si=cZw7xDXnZD7gqBxy

Thanks, you're a sweetheart.