End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[Sister Alvear]

my point is really that women labored in the gospel and did whatever these men were doing for the gospel the women were doing the same thing...

however later I will be back and post more...thanks for your imput

[rdp]

Originally Posted by n david

Thank you Sis Alvear and RDP for the lively debate. I've been following along and am enjoying this.

I have no issues with women preachers or teachers, though I don't believe women should be Pastors.

One question, Sis Alvear - How do you interpret Phil 4:2-3 and Romans 16:3-5 to mean these women were preaching with Paul? There are many ways someone can be a co-laborer or helper. I see nothing in these scriptures or elsewhere where it's written these women preached or taught. It's really adding something that isn't there to say they did so.

The Greek you posted also doesn't mention preaching or teaching. Is there something else written either in the Bible or historical accounts which proves these women did, or is this just your added interpretation?

Trust me, she will never produce one-single Biblical example of a woman "preaching" to a congregation of men out of the Scriptures. I've been asking her for to produce one-single passage which reflects this for years now. Her response? Ignore the exegesis of I Timothy 2 & just stubbornly plod along copying & pasting material that has been refuted point-by-point over & over (as she's done here once again). Sigh.....


Tell ya' what though, give me an hour or 2 & I'll do it again (for about the 10th time) !

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

my point is really that women labored in the gospel and did whatever these men were doing for the gospel the women were doing the same thing...

however later I will be back and post more...thanks for your imput

Hmmm, since the women did everything Paul did, we're they "alongside" him in jail also ? We're they beheaded right "alongside" Paul in Rome? As has been pointed out already, you're merely swatting at something that's not there (& never will be no matter how much you copy-paste). We're the women beaten "alongside" Paul...Let down out a window "alongside" Paul? Were they shipwrecked & in the deep "alongside" Paul? Would love to we the biblical evidences for this (won't hold my breath ).


Or, will you now limit the usage of "alongside" - all the while attempting to cram in your preference? Sorry Sis., but you've caught adding your biases into the Word of God - Again !

[rdp]

Back in about an hour........!

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by rdp

Trust me, she will never produce one-single Biblical example of a woman "preaching" to a congregation of men out of the Scriptures. I've been asking her for to produce one-single passage which reflects this for years now. Her response? Ignore the exegesis of I Timothy 2 & just stubbornly plod along copying & pasting material that has been refuted point-by-point over & over (as she's done here once again). Sigh.....


Tell ya' what though, give me an hour or 2 & I'll do it again (for about the 10th time) !

Why do you persist, when the first time was not successful? I note that several--more than 2 or 3--have witnessed against this. In my experience, a hard truth, correctly put on a thread, leads to silence, and not opposing witnesses coming out of the woodwork (me).

Wadr, your example, correctly interpreted, only seems to be making SA's point, imo:

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus...

tells us that we--male or female--have a man as a mediator.
And, as i'm sure has been exhaustively pointed out now,

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence

interpreted your way must ignore all the other Scriptures that deny it? And mind you, i started into this thread leaning your way! There is a point at which 'preaching the letters' gets shown up for what it is here, imo. Verse 12 seems pretty plainly to be about usurp; you might replace teach with lecture, an easy enough leap, and then but to be in silence might be assumed to mean where these things are concerned.

A reflection of this just came to me, when i 'forced' a pov of coming from 'Love.' Now, i don't expect this to change any decided minds, but i have to believe that this certainly allows enough room for a woman's ministry to be judged by its fruit? I mean, how do you reply to a fruitful woman's ministry? God has made her fruitful, but you do not allow it?

[Luke]

I dont really have a problem with womne preachers that remain feminine in their delivery and do not try to act like a man. When it comes to women pastors i have yet to see the women that met the qualification of THE HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE without being involvesd in some pretty wicked actions.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Luke

I dont really have a problem with womne preachers that remain feminine in their delivery and do not try to act like a man. When it comes to women pastors i have yet to see the women that met the qualification of THE HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE without being involvesd in some pretty wicked actions.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Bible, King James Version

Acts

Previous Chapter

Acts.8

[1] And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
[2] And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.
[3] As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.
[4] Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.

Can you not see that the women were in prison - kinda' hard to "go every where" from a prison-cell !


I have no earthy idea what you think the passages quoted over & over prove? Are you thinking they somehow validate women to teach men in the church? Or, that these passages somehow invalidate Paul's crystal-clear teachings in I Timothy 2.11-3.15?


11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner...3.14 Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, 15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God."


Sorry Sister, most respectfully, you are simply wrong in your interpretation - Paul is specifically addressing church-order, not home-order - & he specifically stated so. You can stubbornly deny the biblical text until dooms-day, but it will never change .

[rdp]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Why do you persist, when the first time was not successful? I note that several--more than 2 or 3--have witnessed against this. In my experience, a hard truth, correctly put on a thread, leads to silence, and not opposing witnesses coming out of the woodwork (me).

Wadr, your example, correctly interpreted, only seems to be making SA's point, imo:

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus...

tells us that we--male or female--have a man as a mediator.
And, as i'm sure has been exhaustively pointed out now,

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence

interpreted your way must ignore all the other Scriptures that deny it? And mind you, i started into this thread leaning your way! There is a point at which 'preaching the letters' gets shown up for what it is here, imo. Verse 12 seems pretty plainly to be about usurp; you might replace teach with lecture, an easy enough leap, and then but to be in silence might be assumed to mean where these things are concerned.

A reflection of this just came to me, when i 'forced' a pov of coming from 'Love.' Now, i don't expect this to change any decided minds, but i have to believe that this certainly allows enough room for a woman's ministry to be judged by its fruit? I mean, how do you reply to a fruitful woman's ministry? God has made her fruitful, but you do not allow it?

I have no idea who or what "wadr" is? Second, "why do I persist" in asking for biblical evidences of one's assertions? Ummm, because I base my beliefs on the Word of God ??


It's not "my interpretation," it is the crystal-clear Word of God that somehow doesn't mean what it plainly says to some folks....amazing - all in order to force their lifestyle preferences into the Bible - a Bible that never states the same thing . Shame on them (but, again, this is AFF so no small wonder).

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Holman Christian Standard Bible
So those who were scattered went on their way preaching the message of good news.

New American Standard Bible
Therefore, those who had been scattered went about preaching the word.

King James Bible
Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.
Parallel Verses
New International Version
Those who had been scattered preached the word wherever they went.

New Living Translation
But the believers who were scattered preached the Good News about Jesus wherever they went.

English Standard Version
Now those who were scattered went about preaching the word.

New American Standard Bible
Therefore, those who had been scattered went about preaching the word.

King James Bible
Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
So those who were scattered went on their way preaching the message of good news.

International Standard Version
Now those who were scattered went from place to place preaching the word.

NET Bible
Now those who had been forced to scatter went around proclaiming the good news of the word.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Those who were scattered were traveling and preaching the word of God.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The believers who were scattered went from place to place, where they spread the word.

King James 2000 Bible
Therefore they that were scattered abroad went everywhere preaching the word.

American King James Version
Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.

American Standard Version
They therefore that were scattered abroad, went about preaching the word.

Douay-Rheims Bible
They therefore that were dispersed, went about preaching the word of God.

Darby Bible Translation
Those then that had been scattered went through the countries announcing the glad tidings of the word.

English Revised Version
They therefore that were scattered abroad went about preaching the word.

Webster's Bible Translation
Therefore they that were dispersed went every where preaching the word.

Weymouth New Testament
Those, however, who were scattered abroad went from place to place spreading the Good News of God's Message;

World English Bible
Therefore those who were scattered abroad went around preaching the word.

Young's Literal Translation
they then indeed, having been scattered, went abroad proclaiming good news -- the word

Ummm, And? Do you think somehow this validates women teaching to men in the church contrary to Paul's clear teachings below?


New International Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

New Living Translation
I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

English Standard Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

New American Standard Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

King James Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent.

International Standard Version
Moreover, in the area of teaching, I am not allowing a woman to instigate conflict toward a man. Instead, she is to remain calm.

NET Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For I do not allow a woman to teach, neither to usurp over a man, but she should be quiet;

GOD'S WORD® Translation
I don't allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. Instead, she should be quiet.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over a mature man, but to be at rest.

King James 2000 Bible
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American King James Version
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American Standard Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.

Darby Bible Translation
but I do not suffer a woman to teach nor to exercise authority over man, but to be in quietness;

English Revised Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Webster's Bible Translation
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Weymouth New Testament
I do not permit a woman to teach, nor have authority over a man, but she must remain silent.

World English Bible
But I don't permit a woman to teach, nor to exercise authority over a man, but to be in quietness.



Still there Sis. & "ain't goin' no-where" .