To tithe or not to tithe?

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Awesome. So not only biblical but universal

Encyclopedia of Religion, “In the ancient Near East lie the origins of a sacred offering or payment of a tenth part of stated goods or property to the deity. Often given to the king or to the royal temple, the ‘tenth’ was usually approximate, not exact. The practice is known from Mesopotamia, Syria-Palestine, Greece and as far to the west as the Phoenician city of Carthage.”[2]

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Encyclopedia of Religion, “In the ancient Near East lie the origins of a sacred offering or payment of a tenth part of stated goods or property to the deity. Often given to the king or to the royal temple, the ‘tenth’ was usually approximate, not exact. The practice is known from Mesopotamia, Syria-Palestine, Greece and as far to the west as the Phoenician city of Carthage.”[2]

By "Universal" I did not mean Indians in America were practicing it too.

There are biblical truths that are practices of non-biblical cultures such as government and tithing and others

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Pliny

One question begs to be asked:
Who taught Abraham to tithe?

There is no mention of it until the event with Melchizedek. Then out of nowhere Abraham seemingly initiates something that was heretofore unknown and everybody seems to know and understand it. So it begs the question of why?

Why did Abraham tithe?
Who taught him?
Why did everyone seem to know and understand?
No one questioned what was happening.


Just some thoughts to ponder...

Originally Posted by Rudy

It seems this was a practice among pagans as well. Nothing unusual.

Thank you. That was the point of the questions!
Ancient civilizations tithed ad gave the "tenths" to their deities.

The next question is where did these ancient civilizations learn to tithe?
I believe it goes back to Eden. It appears to go back at least as far as Cain and Able. In the LXX the narrative of Cain and Able gives the impression of tithing. Thus as most cultures retain a flood story in their history they also retain tithing as a stewardship custom. So where does the Bible ever say tithing was to cease? It doesn't therefore tithing is a requirement for today as well.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Pilgrum

Tithing was for the support of the Levits who did not have any inheritance in the land, for their work of maintenance and upkeep of the temple. It was also used to aid the poor, widows and strangers in the land. It was ALWAYS and ONLY paid in livestock and agriculture. So if you were a carpenter in old testiment times you were NOT required to tithe. This all changed with the passing of the old covenant and the new. It's very simple really.

Those who insist that we must tithe cannot provide an explanation as to why it is NEVER taught in the New Testiment. The reason is simple. Giving IS taught in the New Testiment.

This has been discussed in depth many times here. Like here for instance.
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=40565

I have always heard the tithing was on livestock and things of the land, but how do you explain this:

Luk 21:1 As he looked up, Jesus saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury.
Luk 21:2 He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins.
Luk 21:3 I tell you the truth, he said, "this poor widow has put in more than all the others.
Luk 21:4 All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on."

[Jacob's Ladder]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I don't see where you are getting Jacob bullied God.

BTW I think you are missing the point in that verse. Jacob is making a vow to God before Jacob really knew God. In essence he was akin to today's unbeliever saying "If you really are God and you want me to follow you, please help me with this situation and if you do I will follow you and devote myself to you"

Jacob was not making a precondition to tithing. He was Letting Yhwh know that if he reveals Himself to Jacob then Jacob will become a follower and as part of being a follower, will give a 10th of what is his to Yhwh

The part you did not bold is pertinent "Then the LORD will be my God"

As part of that package, the LORD being Jacob's God, Jacob promises to build a house to God and give a 10th of what is his to God

Praxeas,

In regard to your comments above regarding Jacob, you said:


"Jacob is making a vow to God before Jacob really knew God. In essence he was akin to today's unbeliever saying "If you really are God and you want me to follow you, please help me with this situation and if you do I will follow you and devote myself to you"

"Jacob was not making a precondition to tithing. He was Letting Yhwh know that if he reveals Himself to Jacob then Jacob will become a follower and as part of being a follower, will give a 10th of what is his to Yhwh"



My response is, if tithing was Pre-Mosaic, Abraham would have stressed on the importance of tithing, yes? We know from scripture that Jacob was Isaac’s father, thus, Jacob was Abraham’s grandson.

If tithing was Pre-Mosaic, not only would Abraham have taught his children to tithe, but also Jacob would have known tithing was mandatory, and would never have tried to “make a deal” with god! In Genesis 28:20-22, in summarizing the scriptures, Jacob pretty much states, God, take care of me and then only will I give you ten percent. Is this what Abraham and Issac taught Jacob?

If tithing was Pre-Mosaic, Abraham's teaching was have made its way to Jacob, and Jacob wouldn't have given god terms and conditions, in order for God to receive Jacob's "ten percent."

Regards,
Jacob's Ladder

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

Praxeas,

In regard to your comments above regarding Jacob, you said:


"Jacob is making a vow to God before Jacob really knew God. In essence he was akin to today's unbeliever saying "If you really are God and you want me to follow you, please help me with this situation and if you do I will follow you and devote myself to you"

"Jacob was not making a precondition to tithing. He was Letting Yhwh know that if he reveals Himself to Jacob then Jacob will become a follower and as part of being a follower, will give a 10th of what is his to Yhwh"



My response is, if tithing was Pre-Mosaic, Abraham would have stressed on the importance of tithing, yes? We know from scripture that Jacob was Isaac’s father, thus, Jacob was Abraham’s grandson.

If tithing was Pre-Mosaic, not only would Abraham have taught his children to tithe, but also Jacob would have known tithing was mandatory, and would never have tried to “make a deal” with god! In Genesis 28:20-22, in summarizing the scriptures, Jacob pretty much states, God, take care of me and then only will I give you ten percent. Is this what Abraham and Issac taught Jacob?

If tithing was Pre-Mosaic, Abraham's teaching was have made its way to Jacob, and Jacob wouldn't have given god terms and conditions, in order for God to receive Jacob's "ten percent."

Regards,
Jacob's Ladder

Exactly! It would have been non-sensible to bargain.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Justin

I have always heard the tithing was on livestock and things of the land, but how do you explain this:

Luk 21:1 As he looked up, Jesus saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury.
Luk 21:2 He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins.
Luk 21:3 I tell you the truth, he said, "this poor widow has put in more than all the others.
Luk 21:4 All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on."

Gifts. they were not tithes.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

Praxeas,

In regard to your comments above regarding Jacob, you said:


"Jacob is making a vow to God before Jacob really knew God. In essence he was akin to today's unbeliever saying "If you really are God and you want me to follow you, please help me with this situation and if you do I will follow you and devote myself to you"

"Jacob was not making a precondition to tithing. He was Letting Yhwh know that if he reveals Himself to Jacob then Jacob will become a follower and as part of being a follower, will give a 10th of what is his to Yhwh"

My response is, if tithing was Pre-Mosaic, Abraham would have stressed on the importance of tithing, yes? We know from scripture that Jacob was Isaac’s father, thus, Jacob was Abraham’s grandson.

That tithing was practiced before the law of Moses is indisputable

If tithing was Pre-Mosaic, not only would Abraham have taught his children to tithe, but also Jacob would have known tithing was mandatory, and would never have tried to “make a deal” with god! In Genesis 28:20-22, in summarizing the scriptures, Jacob pretty much states, God, take care of me and then only will I give you ten percent. Is this what Abraham and Issac taught Jacob?

We don't know what Abraham would have done but the fact that Jacob said he would tithe again proves it was before the Law

BTW I already explained before that was not what Jacob was doing.

If tithing was Pre-Mosaic, Abraham's teaching was have made its way to Jacob, and Jacob wouldn't have given god terms and conditions, in order for God to receive Jacob's "ten percent."

Regards,
Jacob's Ladder

Tithing before the law is indisputable. Abraham and Jacob both did it and you've just admitted Jacob did

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Exactly! It would have been non-sensible to bargain.

He wasn't bargaining. lol. You assumed he was.

Second it is indisputable that Jacob agreed he would give 10% back to God

It is indisputable that Abraham gave a 10th of the possessions to a priest of God

It is indisputable that Hebrews says it was a tithe.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

He wasn't bargaining. lol. You assumed he was.

Second it is indisputable that Jacob agreed he would give 10% back to God

It is indisputable that Abraham gave a 10th of the possessions to a priest of God

It is indisputable that Hebrews says it was a tithe.

To me he was bargaining "if". No problem about tithes.