Rejoicing In the Sabbath:

[TGBTG]

Matthew 22
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Strictly speaking "Loving your neighbor as yourself" is not in the 10 commandments. It is in the "Law of Moses" as defined by Aquila.
However if you love your neighbor as yourself, you will be fulfilling the last 5 commands but also doing a lot more than that.

If you keep the literal commands, you will hate your brother and yet still think you've not sinned. But GRACE shows us that HATING is just as bad as killing.

The DEMANDS OF GRACE FAR OUTWEIGHS THE DEMANDS OF THE LAW

[TGBTG]

Col 2
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Aquila,

Paul said Sabbath DAYS (plural). That would include any day referred to as sabbath in the old testament.

Whether it's the regular 7 day sabbath or the feasts, it does not matter.

They're ALL sabbath days

[TGBTG]

Walk in the Spirit

Rom 7
1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

I personally do not believe the Law of God is different from the Law of Moses, but for the sake of communication, I will distinguish.

In Rom 7, Paul is referring to the Law of God because he quotes from it (Thou shalt not covet). And Paul says in verse 6 that we are DELIVERED from the Law.

Rom 7
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Yes, the Law is SPIRITUAL. This is referring to the Law of God. But remember Paul said in verse 6 that we are DELIVERED from the Law of God.

Rom 8
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We are DELIVERED from the Law through Christ. The righteousness of the Law is fulfilled in us when we WALK in the Spirit. Let's not serve in the oldness of the Letter but in newness of the Spirit.

1 Cor 9:
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

John 13
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The Spirit within causes us to do that without having us resort to a written law, though. That is Romans 6:13. That is having it written in our hearts. It's David's answered prayer for the Lord to CAUSE US to walk in his statutes. What the Spirit causes us to do without us having to resort to written law is what the written law urged! But we discover we do it without having known it may have been in law. This is how walking after the Spirit causes us to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

You and I are in agreement with regards to being led of the Spirit. The baptism of the Holy Spirit has regenerated the spirit of the believer. Of course, the believer is still in a process of learning how to discipline their bodies and how to renew their minds through hearing, study, and meditation upon the Word of God.

You seem to believe that we who are born of the Spirit do not need a law to refer to in order to know God’s will. You indicate that the Holy Spirit CAUSES US to walk in his statutes without us having to do this without ever referring to what the written law urged. You then say that this is how “walking after the Spirit” causes us to resist the lusts of the flesh.

Here’s my problem with that reasoning. If that is true… we don’t need a Bible. We don’t need ANY form of WRITTEN “law” or “guideline”. We just willy nilly walk after the Spirit and God magically causes us to obey those things which were written in the law that we need not ever refer to. I can technically throw my Bible out and simply walk after the Spirit. I STRONGLY disagree.

While we are regenerated in our spirits our minds are still carnal. We must still train and discipline the mind. We must “know” what God desires. When we read the “law” of God we find a witness to that very law in our hearts from the Holy Spirit. This is when “conviction” occurs. The unregenerate will read God’s law and find it to be overbearing and grievous. The regenerated will find it to be a blessing to meditate upon His law day and night. The regenerate will seek to understand those laws and walk in God’s ways. Why? Because they are walking after the Spirit. Those actions that cater to the lusts of the flesh will leave the regenerated believer feeling guilty and ashamed. Why? Because those actions are contrary to the new nature they have in their spirits through the Holy Ghost’s presence. We need the Word of God to renew our minds. We need to hear, read, and study the statutes that the Spirit is guiding us to walk in. Else…why go to church? Why read the Bible? Why even ask what God desires? Why not just drift off on our sanctified clouds of careless ease trusting that the Spirit will simply cause us to live holy?

I can attest to the fact that the Holy Spirit awakened my mind to God’s Law. The Holy Spirit showed me the distinction between the Law of God and the Law of Moses. The Holy Spirit’s presence in my heart bore witness to the Law of God as I read it. I was attending a very conservative church wherein the pastor had laid down many arbitrary laws and regulations predicated upon his own “spirit led” convictions. The legalism DESTROYED my family. I walked with the OSAS Antinomians for a while. Grace, grace, grace. And I DO believe in abounding grace. However, I also believe in HOLINESS. And I admit that I’m not all that I can be yet, but as I surrender to the Spirit, He teaches me to be holy. And with tears and much prayer I sought how to know that I was pleasing God. That’s when God revealed the importance of the Ten Commandments to me. They are not grievous. They are reasonable. In fact, they bring rejoicing to the hearts of the elect as the Spirit within bears witness to them. If I have a question about something being sin…or if someone asks me if something is a sin… I don’t say, “Pray and see what the Spirit tells you.” I can refer straight to the Law of God and evaluate if said action violates the letter or the spirit of God’s moral law.

For example, one poster here stated that the Ten Commandments would allow one to hate their brother. Not so. The Law of God states:

VI
Thou shalt not murder

While hating a brother doesn’t violate the “letter” of the Sixth Commandment; it does violate the “spirit” of the Sixth Commandment. The Apostle John wrote:

I John 3:15
{3:15} Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

The spirit that begins with hatred will lead to murder if allowed to grow in the heart.

The Law of God states:

VII
Thou shalt not commit adultery

Looking upon a woman with lust may not violate the “letter” of the Seventh Commandment. However, it does violate the “spirit” of the Sixth Commandment. Jesus said,

Matthew 5:27-28
{5:27} Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: {5:28} But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

The Holy Spirit’s witness of the law in our hearts reveals the “spirit” of the Law, not just the letter of the Law (legalism).

You can claim that you need no “law” to refer to, you have the Spirit magically causing you to live a holy life. I know that’s not true. After all…you’re quoting passages of the NT as being your “law” of faith and why you claim you have no law! LOL You need God’s Word Rev. Blume…or you’d not quote the NT. And the NT is not designed to abolish God’s Law. New Testament truth testifies that God desires to change us into new creatures that desire to obey God’s Law (or the word you used, “statutes”) by virtue of our very nature.

Jesus said,

Matthew 5:17-19
{5:17} Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. {5:18} For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. {5:19} Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them,] the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Breaking God’s Law, and teaching others to do so is a VERY serious offense to God's holiness Rev. Blume. No man being led of the Spirit would dare do so. Breaking God's Law, and teaching others to do so, can cause you to miss out on many of the blessings God would have in store for you in eternity you would have received, had you been faithful to God’s commandments, and taught other men to be faithful to them too.

[Aquila]

Jesus said something very interesting to the legalistic Pharisees who were trying to trap Him with regards to the Law of God. Let’s review it:

Matthew 22:34-40
{22:34} But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put
the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
{22:35} Then one of them, [which was] a lawyer, asked
[him a question, ]tempting him, and saying, {22:36}
Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?
{22:37} Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy
God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy
mind. {22:38} This is the first and great commandment.
{22:39} And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy
neighbour as thyself. {22:40} On these two commandments
hang all the law and the prophets.

Notice something here… Jesus quotes THE LAW:

Leviticus
{19:18} Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I [am] the LORD.

Deuteronomy
{6:5} And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Would anyone here argue, “But that is the Law!” No. Back to the passage itself…

The lawyer asked Jesus about the greatest commandment in the law. Jesus takes these two commandments and demonstrates that they embody the two governing principles of the entire Law of God. Now any honest soul will ask, How does one properly love God with all their heart, soul, and mind? After all… a pagan convert who is ignorant of God’s Word might erect a statue of Jesus or His mother and bow down to it out of LOVE! Lol But that’s not God’s will. How do we know how to properly worship and demonstrate our love for God? A pagan new convert might “love” his neighbor by offering physical pleasure as pagans do. How is this new convert who hasn’t had their mind renewed going to know the will of God concerning how to love their neighbor? What if some angry self loathing man chooses to hate and cheat on his wife out of spite. In his twisted mind, he’d expect her to do the same to him. How does he know how he should be loved and how to demonstrate love? God’s Law reveals this:

Governing Principle: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Applied how?

I
Thou shalt have no other gods before Me
II
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
III
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord
thy God in vain, for the Lord will not
hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain
IV
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy
V
Honor thy father and thy mother,
that thy days may be long upon the land
which the Lord thy God giveth thee

Governing Principle: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Applied how?

VI
Thou shalt not murder
VII
Thou shalt not commit adultery
VIII
Thou shalt not steal
IX
Thou shalt not bear false witness
against thy neighbor
X
Thou shalt not covet

If one’s actions violate any one of these Ten Commandments in letter of the law or spirit of the law…they have failed to live by the governing principles of Christianity as laid out by Jesus and are NOT walking after the Spirit.

The keeping the Law doesn't justify or save us. It cannot. However, for those of us who are saved... the Spirit's witness to the Law shows us how to walk and to be holy in thought, word, and deed.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It's David's answered prayer for the Lord to CAUSE US to walk in his statutes. What the Spirit causes us to do without us having to resort to written law is what the written law urged!

So why is it that if the Spirit causes us to observe the Sabbath (not out of law, but out of love)... you oppose???

I do not oppose having church on Sunday. I am troubled by blatant rebellion against God's Word. It's my calling and my duty to admonish people to obedience:

Matthew 5:17-19
{5:17} Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. {5:18} For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. {5:19} Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them,] the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I'm not saying one has to go to church on the Sabbath. I'm not saying that one should never attend a Sunday service. I'm simply stating that there is a blessing in honoring God's commandments. The Sabbath only asks three things of us:

Exodus 20:8-11
{20:8}Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. {20:9} Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: {20:10} But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy
daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates: {20:11} For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is,] and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

We are told to:

-Remember
-Keep the day holy (set aside for sacred use)
-The entire household should rest

You might dedicate the Sabbath to being the day you have family altar or family devotions. You might dedicate the Sabbath to being a time to be alone with God on the lake fishing, on the porch reading, or in the yard praying. As your body experiences the sacred rthym of rest, you will find great peace in your mind and realize... this is not a drudgery... but a gift to you. In our busy culture with it's ever increasing speed and items on the schedule the value Sabbath has never been more necessary. Nervous breakdowns, divorce, fighting, frustration, anxiety, in our homes are taking place partly because of the increasing quest to get MORE FASTER. Man wasn't designed for this pace. God ordained that we rest one day in seven. God designated the seventh day as a day of rest because we'd shuffle and shift it to fit our schedule until we shoved it off entirely. For the believer... Sunday is often the most busy day of the week! lol You'd be amazed at how many families fight and bicker as they rush to get up on time, rush to get cleaned up and dressed, rush to eat, rush to get to the church, and rush to their pews. lol Husbands and wives who "let each other have it" in the car... and as soon as they step out... they're all smiling and happy looking. LOL I've seen it.... I've done it. Ah... but the Sabbath. The Sabbath is beautiful! Now the spiritual Sabbath I experience in my soul through Jesus is manifest around me once a week. That which was natural, plain ol' Saturday... has now become powerfully sacred. I love to go birdwatching and pray. During the summer I love to get out on the lake and pray. Sometimes fish... sometimes just drift as I pray or read the Word. It slows things down. It's a blessing. Not a drudgery. I so wish people understood the value in obeying this commandment. I wish so many didn't automatically rush to the "legalism" accusations. It's a sanctuary in time that brings a rthym of rest and calm to one's life.

What the Sabbath means to me:



It doesn't mean "Attending Church".

[johnny44]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Prax... without the Law of God (the Ten Commandments) how do we define sin?

The New Testament states:

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Without the Law sin cannot be defined! For sin is... transgression of the law.

Paul illustrates that the Law of God points out sin...

ROM. 7:7 What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
ROM. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

For those who have the Holy Ghost there is no need to fear the Law of God. It is a rejoicing and through Christ the Law becomes a sweet Law of Liberty. John writes:

1 JOHN 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

WOW! THIS is the love of God? What is it again?

"...that we keep his commandments..."

And what is our disposition towards God's Commandments?

...and his commandments are not grievous."

Whew! I thought he was talking about the Law of Moses with all the dietary laws, dress codes, etc., etc.. John is only talking about God's moral Law... the Ten Commandments.

James gives us some insight...

JAM. 2:10-12 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Okay... so we can't keep all but one law (for example the Fourth Commandment) without violating the whole law. So we are admonished to do what?

...So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

BAM! There it is! LOL

Praise God!

Did the disciples of Jesus transgress the the fourth commandment in Mt 12:1 when they were picking corn on the Sabbath.KJV

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by johnny44

Did the disciples of Jesus transgress the the fourth commandment in Mt 12:1 when they were picking corn on the Sabbath.KJV

No.

Where does the Fourth Commandment stipulate that you can't pick corn? lol

There were many stipulations in the Law of Moses regarding the Sabbath. For example, stipulations regarding lighting a fire and/or harvesting on the Sabbath:

Exodus 35:3
3 "You shall not kindle a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day"

Exodus 34:21
21 “Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.

The disciples may have violated the ceremonial stipulations in the Law of Moses regarding its regulations on the Sabbath, but they didn't violate the Law of God. That was Christ's point. Jesus points out that even David violated the Law of Moses concerning the shewbread:

Matthew 12:1-8 (ESV)
1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said to him, “Look, your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath.” 3 He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, and those who were with him: 4 how he entered the house of God and ate the bread of the Presence, which it was not lawful for him to eat nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have you not read in the Law how on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath and are guiltless? 6 I tell you, something greater than the temple is here. 7 And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”

There is nothing in the Fourth Commandment about gleaning or doing what you must to eat and survive. Review it:

Exodus 20:8-11
{20:8}Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. {20:9} Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: {20:10} But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates: {20:11} For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is,] and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

You see, the Law of Moses was a body of cultural and ceremonial laws for the nation of Israel BASED on the Fourth Commandment. Jesus was preaching the Kingdom of God. All that is asked of us on the Sabbath according to the Law of God is:

-To remember the Sabbath
-Keep the day holy (set aside for sacred use)
-The entire household should rest

That's all.

The Law of Moses and the ordinances that were against us (with its sacrificial system) are nailed to the cross. Today we are to turn to Christ and walk in the Spirit. And the Spirit guides us in relation to God's Law. God's Law isn't abolished. It's simply that we need not keep the Law of God to be saved...we keep the Law of God because we are saved.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Also note the following:

1 John 3:22
And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

Interestingly, note how those who are faithful to the Lord are described in the book of Revelation:

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Yes, even as a Christian, there are commandments to obey. But again, we don't obey them to be saved... we obey them because we are saved.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Walk in the Spirit

Rom 7
1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

I personally do not believe the Law of God is different from the Law of Moses, but for the sake of communication, I will distinguish.

In Rom 7, Paul is referring to the Law of God because he quotes from it (Thou shalt not covet). And Paul says in verse 6 that we are DELIVERED from the Law.

Rom 7
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Yes, the Law is SPIRITUAL. This is referring to the Law of God. But remember Paul said in verse 6 that we are DELIVERED from the Law of God.

Rom 8
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We are DELIVERED from the Law through Christ. The righteousness of the Law is fulfilled in us when we WALK in the Spirit. Let's not serve in the oldness of the Letter but in newness of the Spirit.

1 Cor 9:
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

John 13
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

For Aquila to consider...

[TGBTG]

Would drunkenness be okay now since the "Law of God" does not speak against it?