DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Also, to the comment about people backsliding in America, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it has not as much to do with the power in the churches as it has to do with the prosperity in the nation. If these folks come from countries that have no professional sports, no leisure activities, and no money to attend them even if they existed, it could well be a contributing factor when they come to a country with 500 channels on basic cable, more to do OUTSIDE the church that inside the church, and money with which to indulge these pleasures. Just a thought.

I have to agree with you here. I think that we are very distracted with all of our toys and gadgets. And I think, in some cases, leadership, which you termed as "power in the churches" has something to do with it also.

But, I believe the statistic is true when it says that no matter the size of the congregation, you will have 25% doing the majority of the giving and the work. That tells me that no matter the situation in the church, you will find faithful and sincere people.

And, I haven't been around here very much lately, so I will concede that maybe I've missed some threads, but at least on this thread, I haven't seen anyone trying to convince anyone to leave the UPCI. I've only seen people discuss the validity of an organizational position. The nastiest posts I've seen on this thread have come from an ultracon, defending the position. And, to be honest, my experience is that there is just as much pressure from those still in the mothership placed on those who have left as the other way around.

There's that perception coming into play - in the eye of the beholder. No sense in discussing this any further.

Either way, I enjoyed the discussion, thanks!

Always! Thanks for the input!

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Okay, I'll pop over there while my batteries recharge.

How do you get your batteries recharged?

BeenThinkin' TOO MUCH!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by DAII

What the world is looking for as aptly stated by brother in Christ, Mark Bassett, is a Jesus Identity .... not an Artificial Identity!

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Very true!

I guess that's one reason MB has chosen to leave the mothership.

I guess while we are on the subject - I wonder if you could term this as a "broadbrush"?

When I read this comment, I am reading, "If you are in the "Mothership", you have Artificial Identity".

So, would you be saying that I do not have a real and sincere relationship with God? That I cannot hear His voice? That He does not give me direction?

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I guess while we are on the subject - I wonder if you could term this as a "broadbrush"?

When I read this comment, I am reading, "If you are in the "Mothership", you have Artificial Identity".

So, would you be saying that I do not have a real and sincere relationship with God? That I cannot hear His voice? That He does not give me direction?

That post has nothing to do with you and it's not a broadbrush. MB feels that way and I was just stating that apparently is one reason he's no longer in the mothership.

I read MB's post and was just responding to DA.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On;
Church Drop-Out: Overcoming the Youth Exodus
Join us this evening for this free video Simulcast on the Web and the AFR radio network.
01/19/2010

Here's a reminder about an important radio/Internet simulcast coming up tonight on AFR and www.afa.net. It deals with something close to our hearts as parents. In communities all across our land, there's a problem of young people dropping out of church. As a matter of fact, three out of four Christian teens walk away from church after they leave home.

Sincerely,

Tim Wildmon, President
American Family Association

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

It is true that many young people of every denomination are walking away. I think it is because we (all of Christianity) have turned Jesus into a religion rather than a relationship.

I think that some have, but as I remember the story in I Kings 18:22 "Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the LORD; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men."

It is not possible for me to believe that the whole of Christianity has turned this blessed church into a religious package. I don't know why, but that kind of comment (we've turned Jesus into a religion) always reminds me of Eeyore, I mean, Elijah! LOL!

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." II Corinthians 3:17 We will always have God.

I have never been in a church situation or personal situation where I could not get a hold of God. He is ever present.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I think that some have, but as I remember the story in I Kings 18:22 "Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the LORD; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men."

It is not possible for me to believe that the whole of Christianity has turned this blessed church into a religious package. I don't know why, but that kind of comment (we've turned Jesus into a religion) always reminds me of Eeyore, I mean, Elijah! LOL!

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." II Corinthians 3:17 We will always have God.

I have never been in a church situation or personal situation where I could not get a hold of God. He is ever present.

You are mixing your personal experience with AQP's quote. You can't understand anyone turning Jesus into a religion, but that doesn't mean that it's not happening.

The very problem is that so many have made it about programs or a religion and not a true relationship (like you have) with God.

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*
It is true that many young people of every denomination are walking away. I think it is because we (all of Christianity) have turned Jesus into a religion rather than a relationship.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I think that some have, but as I remember the story in I Kings 18:22 "Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the LORD; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men."

It is not possible for me to believe that the whole of Christianity has turned this blessed church into a religious package. I don't know why, but that kind of comment (we've turned Jesus into a religion) always reminds me of Eeyore, I mean, Elijah! LOL!

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." II Corinthians 3:17 We will always have God.

I have never been in a church situation or personal situation where I could not get a hold of God. He is ever present.

The reason I put (all of Christianity) in there, is because I figured if I just put 'we' you'd think I was just picking on Pentecostals.

I didn't mean 'all' as in every single person in Christianity. Of course there are people who have a genuine relationship with God. But, I think Christianity has become very "religious" in many cases. It's a system, a ritual, a tradition, and for many children that is all they're getting out of it.

I had a conversation with a teen last night (who was raised in church) who told me - "I know there is obviously a God, because all of this didn't get here on its own. But, other than that, it all just seems so pointless. The whole church thing, all of it. I just don't understand what it's really all about."

And that is often what is going on in teen's heads. They've been presented a religion, but they just don't "get" it. Sometimes we get so busy going to church, just doing our thing, that we can just get caught up in a routine and forget the true purpose.

Of course YOU have a relationship with God. And no, you're not the only one. But there is SOME reason why Christianity is losing 2/3 of its youth.

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

The reason I put (all of Christianity) in there, is because I figured if I just put 'we' you'd think I was just picking on Pentecostals.

I didn't mean 'all' as in every single person in Christianity. Of course there are people who have a genuine relationship with God. But, I think Christianity has become very "religious" in many cases. It's a system, a ritual, a tradition, and for many children that is all they're getting out of it.

I had a conversation with a teen last night (who was raised in church) who told me - "I know there is obviously a God, because all of this didn't get here on its own. But, other than that, it all just seems so pointless. The whole church thing, all of it. I just don't understand what it's really all about."

And that is often what is going on in teen's heads. They've been presented a religion, but they just don't "get" it. Sometimes we get so busy going to church, just doing our thing, that we can just get caught up in a routine and forget the true purpose.

Of course YOU have a relationship with God. And no, you're not the only one. But there is SOME reason why Christianity is losing 2/3 of its youth.

This is exactly the same type of conversation I have been having with a loved on lately, on more than one occasion. I am not saying that it is across the board, but what I am seeing more and more from the Apostolic movement is this "knee-jerk" reaction to things that have gone on, this desire to hold true to traditions.

Which isn't in and of itself a bad thing, but the danger is that in many instances, this has solidified the "religion" aspect of being Apostolic, versus the relationship aspect. The very thing that so many have proclaimed, "this is a relationship" is negated by the determination to hold on to some things, based on tradition alone. It terrifies and really alienates me.

I cannot understand this fear of examining our beliefs, understanding why and what we believe. My daughter made the statement last night, that the generation of youth coming up under her are clueless. She said they have no clue why they do the things they do, they are just mindlessly going through the motions, for the most part. That was always so huge to me, even if I didn't necessarily agree with some of the things that were taught, I wanted her to understand WHY they were taught, what the meaning and reason for them were. I never, ever wanted her to answer someone questioning why she did or didn't do something, that it was "against my religion."

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

This is exactly the same type of conversation I have been having with a loved on lately, on more than one occasion. I am not saying that it is across the board, but what I am seeing more and more from the Apostolic movement is this "knee-jerk" reaction to things that have gone on, this desire to hold true to traditions.

Which isn't in and of itself a bad thing, but the danger is that in many instances, this has solidified the "religion" aspect of being Apostolic, versus the relationship aspect. The very thing that so many have proclaimed, "this is a relationship" is negated by the determination to hold on to some things, based on tradition alone. It terrifies and really alienates me.

I cannot understand this fear of examining our beliefs, understanding why and what we believe. My daughter made the statement last night, that the generation of youth coming up under her are clueless. She said they have no clue why they do the things they do, they are just mindlessly going through the motions, for the most part. That was always so huge to me, even if I didn't necessarily agree with some of the things that were taught, I wanted her to understand WHY they were taught, what the meaning and reason for them were. I never, ever wanted her to answer someone questioning why she did or didn't do something, that it was "against my religion."

For most of my teen years this was the exact reason I gave outsiders for doing the things we did in our church.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

For most of my teen years this was the exact reason I gave outsiders for doing the things we did in our church.

It was the answer I gave most often, too, because the scriptures that were used to explain many of the issues just didn't make sense to me. Try explaining below-elbow sleeves to your friends at school, biblically.