Leaving The Fold - anyone hear of this?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

She had no faith. I can blame her.

But she had love for him ... no? Albeit, misdirected.

[James Griffin]

Regarding the organization mentioned by Cooper and those similar as far as manipulation and control:

Those of us from that type background have encountered control through manipulation in varying degrees.

I even encountered it in the "secular" world. Especially when working for elected officials such as District Attorney.

It is probably a byproduct of most hierarchical organizations regardless of type.

The question is what to do about it.

I cannot take the excesses of a man led organization and lay blame with God as is advocated by this book.

Some never learn to separate man's attempt to organize religion with God's pure plan of salvation.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

But she had love for him ... no? Albeit, misdirected.

I couldn't imagine encouraging my husband to take his life and saying that I love him. I would ask God to end his life if all he had left was suffering. Our lives are in God's hands.

My MIL died just recently. It was the process of not eating and shutting down. My FIL said he understood that was God's way of taking us home.

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I was thinking about Job's wife the other day ...

Can we blame her for trying to see if her husband's suffering would come to an end?

We cannot blame her for desiring his suffering to end.

We can condemn her methodology- curse God and die

[SDG]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

We cannot blame her for desiring his suffering to end.

We can condemn her methodology- curse God and die

Very true.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

Regarding the organization mentioned by Cooper and those similar as far as manipulation and control:

Those of us from that type background have encountered control through manipulation in varying degrees.

I even encountered it in the "secular" world. Especially when working for elected officials such as District Attorney.

It is probably a byproduct of most hierarchical organizations regardless of type.

The question is what to do about it.

I cannot take the excesses of a man led organization and lay blame with God as is advocated by this book.

Some never learn to separate man's attempt to organize religion with God's pure plan of salvation.

I think it's hard for some to understand that some of us would not have ever changed from our current lifestyle if God had not brought us into the UPC.

I would explain that further, but I don't think many readers would understand. I'm not including you in that statement, James, just saying......

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

We cannot blame her for desiring his suffering to end.

We can condemn her methodology- curse God and die

You said it best!!!

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

She had no faith. I can blame her.

I guess I feel a certain sort of affinity towards her. I know what its like to completely lose your faith, and to be in a place where you view God as the very bane of your existance.

I think if we are honest, every single one of us experience at some time the dark night of our souls. Where we ask Why, and wonder if God is really even there, and think that if this is how he treats his children, maybe we'd be better off without him. I think that many don't think that consciously, for the are afraid of the repercussions, but still, I think its there.

Though we obtain for the attitude of Job, I think that there is more of job's wife in us than we would like to admit. (Or Lot's wife for that matter)

[tamor]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

We cannot blame her for desiring his suffering to end.

We can condemn her methodology- curse God and die

Good point.

[Timmy]

Haven't read it yet. It's on my list.