Forgiveness and/or Remission

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Once again words are placed in Dan's mouth as to what his position is ... You refuse to honestly discuss the term aphesis as it pertains to the NT. Nor can you refute this BIG HOLE in your theology ...

Your 3 step view of procuring God's grace ... and what each step actually accomplishes in our New Birth is also filled w/ GAPING HOLES .... as demonstrated here many times.

No one disagrees that we are to obey God's Word ... NEVER BEEN THE ISSUE .... but it is the when, how and what happens during the New Birth .... this has always been at issue ....

Until we agree on these terms ... it's moot.

Dan does regeneration take place BEFORE and APART from repentance again?

I am NOT arguing the definition of the word aphesis meaning both I am saying they are so connected one is useless without the other. Being baptized will save NO one if they have not repented it only remits the sins of the pentitent however without baptism the repentance is NOT complete. Just as in the atonement was the goat sacrificed and the goat which was led away. It required BOTH to atone for sins. Jesus died for my sins and was raised for my justification I am identified with that in obeying the gospel.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

We agree w/ most of this statement ... it is in the re-enactment theology that gets you guys in the biggest conodrums.

Where is the scripture that clearly states we will be saved IF we re-enact Christs death burial and resurection?

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Dan does regeneration take place BEFORE and APART from repentance again?

I am NOT arguing the definition of the word aphesis meaning both I am saying they are so connected one is useless without the other. Being baptized will save NO one if they have not repented it only remits the sins of the pentitent however without baptism the repentance is NOT complete. Just as in the atonement was the goat sacrificed and the goat which was led away. It required BOTH to atone for sins. Jesus died for my sins and was raised for my justification I am identified with that in obeying the gospel.

Which one is useless...remission or forgivness???? aphesis or aphesis ????

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Dan does regeneration take place BEFORE and APART from repentance again?

I am NOT arguing the definition of the word aphesis meaning both I am saying they are so connected one is useless without the other. Being baptized will save NO one if they have not repented it only remits the sins of the pentitent however without baptism the repentance is NOT complete. Just as in the atonement was the goat sacrificed and the goat which was led away. It required BOTH to atone for sins. Jesus died for my sins and was raised for my justification I am identified with that in obeying the gospel.

You have heard the answer just recently to your question ... from Adino ... they happen almost simultaneously .... a repentant heart is regenerated because by His grace and thru faith we turn to Him and submit entirely to God. Acts 3:19 says that in doing so our sins our blotted/wiped/ remitted/forgiven/etc .....

most importantly our New Birth is from above ... it is SUPERNATURAL ... God is in and out of time ....

Last ... they are connected because they are one and the same ... Elder in the NT ... aphesis is forgiveness ... aphesis is remission .... they are not two separate concepts in the NT. Our sins are forgiven and wiped away the point of faith .... they must happen together.

Elder, Jesus is the Lamb and the scapegoat ... when we place biblical faith in Him ... he takes care of OUR sin problem ALTOGETHER .... once and for all.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

You have heard the answer just recently to your question ... from Adino ... they happen almost simultaneously .... a repentant heart is regenerated because by His grace and thru faith we turn to Him and submit entirely to God. Acts 3:19 says that in doing so our sins our blotted/wiped/ remitted/forgiven/etc .....

most importantly our New Birth is from above ... it is SUPERNATURAL ... God is in and out of time ....

Last ... they are connected because they are one and the same ... Elder in the NT ... aphesis is forgiveness ... aphesis is remission .... they are not two separate concepts in the NT. Our sins are forgiven and wiped away the point of faith .... they must happen together.

Elder, Jesus is the Lamb and the scapegoat ... when we place biblical faith in Him ... he takes care of OUR sin problem ALTOGETHER .... once and for all.

The argument is NOT Who does it Christ paid the price he was BOTH goats in the atonement but in TWO acts death & resurrection ONE atonement. My faith in Him at repentance and baptism does the work. It is His blood that cleanses me from my sins in obeying the gospel.

[Ferd]

i am a baptismal regenerationalist and might as well be jehova's witness or a morman.

thanks dan.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Ferd

i am a baptismal regenerationalist and might as well be jehova's witness or a morman.

thanks dan.

and somebody said Pentecostals can never admit when they are wrong !!

Thanx Ferdy

[Dedicated Mind]

can we be forgiven of our sins, yet not be born again??

can we be saved without being born again??

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Ferd

i am a baptismal regenerationalist and might as well be jehova's witness or a morman.

thanks dan.

Finally a confession!!! The good news is that you can be a BR and still be saved.

[HangingOut]

Let me be the Johnny-come-lately as is the usual case. I respect elder Epley for his time on here and what often seems his lone position on a lot.
26 years in oneness circles...I side with Dan on this. Throw in the fact that I received the HG before baptism and you have this back-pedel theology of "now you get baptized for remission of sins". I don't agree that Acts Ch. 10 supports this doctrine. Yes they received the HG before Baptism, but that was 2 centurys before this 3-step theology.

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Dan does regeneration take place BEFORE and APART from repentance again?

I am NOT arguing the definition of the word aphesis meaning both I am saying they are so connected one is useless without the other. Being baptized will save NO one if they have not repented it only remits the sins of the pentitent however without baptism the repentance is NOT complete. Just as in the atonement was the goat sacrificed and the goat which was led away. It required BOTH to atone for sins. Jesus died for my sins and was raised for my justification I am identified with that in obeying the gospel.