Why Did God Create Man?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by crakjak

My friend, my intent is to glorify our wonderful Creator, Heavenly Father and Almighty God. The traditional view so blasphemes the character, purpose and nature of my great God and Father, that I can't not but tell of the greatness of His ultimate intentions. I John 4.14: "The Father has sent His Son to be the Savior of the world." I believe this to be literally true, if the Father sent the Son to save the world, the world is going to be saved. To me, the traditional view, quite frankly, means that the Son of God was unable to accomplish what the Father sent Him to do.

God will not violate our free will and MAKE us get saved one way or another. The bible teaches the last state shall be worse than the first for those who know Chirts and depart. LAST STATE IS LAST STATE.

Having said that, the question I asked should provoke deeper thought, because the traditional view of the vast majority of men being destroyed or preserved in "endless torture" simply does not fix. God all knowing, all powerful could not have planned such an ineffective plan as the traditional view presents.

We are not obligated to call God good, unless He truly is good. The traditional view does not present a good creator, rather a horrible monster.

Our opinions of what GOD SHOULD do, which are not detailed in the manner we think they should be, if your idea were true, do not amount to a hill of beans.

Take care!

[Dedicated Mind]

Seeing that Lucifer was in the garden of eden to tempt Adam & Eve, it is safe to say that the rebellion of Lucifer occurred BEFORE the creation of man. Has lucifer been judged yet? NO. I believe God created man as a means to judge Lucifer and the fallen angels. What can God judge Lucifer for if not for the pain and sufferring he has caused man. God is also showing the angelic creation what it is like to live without God.

I also believe that Lucifer's 1st judgement is to be cast into the bottomless pit for 1000 years, after he is loosed he rebels again. If lucifer is set free for all the suffering he has caused man, how much more will God set free those bound in hell for their own sins. They are being judged more harshly and will not rebel when set free. The lake of fire awaits lucifer not mankind that has paid for their sins in hell. Hell and the lake of fire are 2 distinct places. If God frees satan, how much more ignorant man. Lucifer is God's only failed creation, though I'm sure Michael and Gabriel had equal opportunity to rebel.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

What is UR? I only ask because I asked a very similar question recently to your original post and got very few responses...

http://www.tentmaker.org/index.html

This link will give you a good overview of Universal Reconcilation. Great reading.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It is UNIVERSAL REDEMPTION. The belief that the bible teaches eveyrone will be saved and no one will be lost. No matter if they aserved God or not, hellfire is meant to CORRECT them, which means hellfire is not forever. They ride on words such as FOREVER which technically means only an AGE, and scriptures such as how we preach reconciliation "of all things".

Where they fail is in misreading these references and not realizing that those references always QUALIFY themselves somewhere in the same chapter as referring to those who come to Christ in THIS LIFE.

They take... "every knee shall bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:10-11), and say that means every one will be saved, not realizing that one will confess He is Lord whether or not they are saved.

"every knee shall bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:10-11).

I don't believe forced confession of Jesus as Lord, will be to the glory of God the Father. Therefore your explanation does not stand, my friend.

Revelation 5.13: "EVERYcreature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and ALL that is in them, saying, 'To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!" I believe this shows that the Son actually accomplished His purpose, as the Savior of ALL men. (I Tim 4:10) The corrective fires of God have finally completed their work.

[Rico]

Maybe He created man because he needed someone to cut all the grass He created.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Raven

Crakjak
Hello my friend!
Why did God create man? This is a tremendous question that sends my thoughts into a thousand different directions. The scripture does give us some clues when it says, "throughout all ages, world without end" and "ages to come". For many of my parents generation the future is one big vacation forever in a 1500 mile city. But when you think of a billion galaxies, each with a billion stars, a 1500 mile city sounds very tiny for the plans of the awesome God that we know. To be confined to that tiny piece of real estate forever sounds almost like prison to me. No, the Father I know has Grand Plans that will continually unfold for ages to come. He is the Grand Architect, the Genius of The Divine Symphony, in which every written note shall be played out in all of its beauty and perfection. The wonder of it is that man is the centerpiece for all of this. You and I are the focus of His wondrous attention. To watch our God heal the wounds of the universe and bring everything into a perfection that would make a Swiss watch envious, is going to be one of the joys we will experience in the future. Our Father does everything complete and perfect with no loose ends. No one is meaningless in God's eyes and all will fit like pieces in the puzzle of life to complete our Father's masterpiece. "Of the increase of his government there shall be no end."

I don't suppose I came up with any real answers to your profound question but I have expressed a joy, that the God who sees the sparrow fall and the flower fade, has grand and glorious plans for us all, who are worth more than many sparrows.
Raven

This is one beautiful, articulate, and edifying post!

Thank you!

[RandyWayne]

Seeing that Lucifer was in the garden of eden to tempt Adam & Eve, it is safe to say that the rebellion of Lucifer occurred BEFORE the creation of man. Has lucifer been judged yet? NO. I believe God created man as a means to judge Lucifer and the fallen angels. What can God judge Lucifer for if not for the pain and sufferring he has caused man. God is also showing the angelic creation what it is like to live without God.

There is a traditional view that the Universe and planet Earth prior to mans fall was in a state of perfection without the existence of entropy, pain, work, or death. But sin DID exist. It existed when Lucifer fell and became Satan. Mankind was indeed innocent for a short time, but but he fell his pain and work were INCREASED. The Universe and man ARE perfect (when God says It is good) in the sense that they are part of Gods perfect plan for what is to be accomplished, which is the elimination of sin.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

There is a traditional view that the Universe and planet Earth prior to mans fall was in a state of perfection without the existence of entropy, pain, work, or death. But sin DID exist. It existed when Lucifer fell and became Satan. Mankind was indeed innocent for a short time, but but he fell his pain and work were INCREASED. The Universe and man ARE perfect (when God says It is good) in the sense that they are part of Gods perfect plan for what is to be accomplished, which is the elimination of sin.

What is the source of this view?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by crakjak

[/B]


"every knee shall bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:10-11).

I don't believe forced confession of Jesus as Lord, will be to the glory of God the Father. Therefore your explanation does not stand, my friend.

Believe what you will. You have no clear statement to any of your effects in the bible. It's all assumptions. And when God sees all bow before Him, whether they served Him or not, IT IS to the glory of the Father he is King and in the end NO ONE can deny it. That does nto require their salvation. And it glorifies God.

Revelation 5.13: "EVERYcreature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and ALL that is in them, saying, 'To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!" I believe this shows that the Son actually accomplished His purpose, as the Savior of ALL men. (I Tim 4:10) The corrective fires of God have finally completed their work.

Makes nonsense of the entirety of scripture. Sorry. I see no good reason in UR.

If we are consistent, LAST STATE means LAST STATE. Nothing else exists in this one's state other than this worse conditio, since this LAST one is negative. That fully negates UR.

Mat 12:45 KJV Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Believe what you will. You have no clear statement to any of your effects in the bible. It's all assumptions. And when God sees all bow before Him, whether they served Him or not, IT IS to the glory of the Father he is King and in the end NO ONE can deny it. That does nto require their salvation. And it glorifies God.



Makes nonsense of the entirety of scripture. Sorry. I see no good reason in UR.

If we are consistent, LAST STATE means LAST STATE. Nothing else exists in this one's state other than this worse conditio, since this LAST one is negative. That fully negates UR.

Mat 12:45 KJV Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

This verse is simply saying the that the latter state of this man is worse than the former, it is assumption to extrapolate that statement to the final disposition of such a man. And you know quite well the end of that wicked generation was temporal and national judgment, and that ALL Israel will be saved.

As far as the eventually salvation of all of mankind making nonsense of the scripture, far from it, it gives scripture meaning and purpose. You have never answered the question as to why an all knowing God would create so many in His own image for destruction and endless torment. That He would not use His power to totally destroy all the works of the devil?