Modesty vs Holiness

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Good idea but, what about the people that do not know God yet are modest in dress? I agree with what you say if you are referring to churched people. Though we are not about churched people are we? The truth is that there are a ton of results of holiness. Modesty, I think helps to protect your holiness. I am not for a dress code placed on us, though I am for modesty. Your opinions and my opinions about modesty and other things may differ however I think that you can understand what I am saying. It is like wheels on a car. The wheels are not part of the car (cause they can be removed), but the car can not go anywhere without the wheels. Modesty is not part of holiness, but modesty helps holiness go.

Thats why I worded it "Modesty is A result of holiness in ones life.

As DWW stated above somewhere, "you can have modesty without holiness, but can you have holiness without modesty?"

Show me someone that has true holiness, and I will show you someone that has modesty in all the their conduct and character. Because modesty is A fruit of true holiness.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Thats why I worded it "Modesty is A result of holiness in ones life.

As DWW stated above somewhere, "you can have modesty without holiness, but can you have holiness without modesty?"

Show me someone that has true holiness, and I will show you someone that has modesty in all the their conduct and character. Because modesty is A fruit of true holiness.

Well said! I agree with you.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

The ugliness of the world comes from an ugly heart. Just as holiness proceeds from a pure heart. I didn't say anything about clothing in that paragraph. You assumed I was talking dress code.

It seems all to often that some want to cover the shining of His light with a veil, cause the light scares folks, kinda like when Moses came down from being with God on the mountain. If we can just be a little more like them then they'll want what we have. Maybe if we exhibited a little more love and light they'd want what He has to offer.

I never said you were talking about clothing. You had quoted me from before and in that post "I" was talking about clothing thus the reason I was talking about it.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I never said you were talking about clothing. You had quoted me from before and in that post "I" was talking about clothing thus the reason I was talking about it.

It's no problem.

We're having a good discussion!

If we examine the fruit of the Spirit, well see that gentleness, goodness, meeknes and temperance all speak to modesty, morality, and integrity. All attributes the world is sorely lacking and of which The Church, the Bride of Christ should be a great example.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Yes, I can drive a luxury car. Should I, would be a better question.
And if I shouldn't, should that preclude you from driving one? Or should I judge you as less Holy than I if you do?

My driving in luxuary should depend on if I'd be conceited or vain in doing so. If I did so to flaunt my (imagined) affluence wouldn't it be wrong? I would guess the answer would go according to motive, Counselor.

Should I worry about what impact drivng a luxuary automobile might have on a brother or sister that is living in a lesser state of luxuary, or having no luxary at all?

Would Jesus drive a luxuary car or SUV? Why or why not?

Are there boundries that bring freedom from concite or vanity?
Are there boundries that keeps one within a state of propriety in dress, speech, or conduct?

Excellent questions and observations. Let me continue...

Does it matter what Jesus would drive? Would Jesus take accounting? Would Jesus have a wife?

Why do the Ten Commandments speak against coveting but not vanity?

Why do we get so worked up about vanity when Solomon called everything in life vanity?

[Sister Alvear]

all is vainty saith the preacher... we must decide how vain we are....

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Newman

Does it matter what Jesus would drive?

It's not the make and model, but how He would go about choosing. He probably would just borrow a car, like borrowing a donkey for His triumphant entry.

Originally Posted by Newman

Would Jesus take accounting?

He didn't need to take accounting, that's why he had Judas and Matthis.

Originally Posted by Newman

Would Jesus have a wife?

Probably not, His was to be a Spiritual linage, not a physical one.

Originally Posted by Newman

Why do the Ten Commandments speak against coveting but not vanity?

Could it be that vanity is a main ingredant in coveting?

Originally Posted by Newman

Why do we get so worked up about vanity when Solomon called everything in life vanity?

Why do you get worked up about vanity?

Vanity and pride are soul killers.

Romans 12:9 - 21 (KJV) 9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. 10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another; 11 Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord; 12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer; 13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality. 14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. 15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. 16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. 17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. 18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

[Newman]

ok... You showed us that some of the choices made by Jesus are not applicable to the lives we deal with. My point exactly. Thank you.

You also made an interesting point about vanity perhaps being at the root of coveting. Great food for thought.

Nevertheless, the irony is that in the end; modesty can of itself become a point of vanity. Which leads to the next point...

Why are we so concerned about our neighbor's vanity while leaving our own alone? Humans have always expressed their individuality one way or another. Why then is vanity only ok when it is done the way I do it? :sshhh


Incidently, you get the last word, since I am out of here for at least the next few days.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

It's no problem.

We're having a good discussion!

If we examine the fruit of the Spirit, well see that gentleness, goodness, meeknes and temperance all speak to modesty, morality, and integrity. All attributes the world is sorely lacking and of which The Church, the Bride of Christ should be a great example.

Here comes the pitch, and it is a high drive deep into left field and it is outta here a homerun by RevDWW!

[Steve Epley]

You can look the part and not be the part BUT you can NEVER be the part and not look the part.