Ancient Monarchians and Trinitarians

Originally Posted by mizpeh

It's hidden d/t persecution.

yeah, this is the response I was taught as well, but it doesn't hold any water.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

The "remnant every generation theory"... plausible ... yet wrought w/ heretics intertwined.

God is good and his mercy is everlasting and his truth endures to all generations.

The righteous hide during persecution.

Proverbs 28:12 When righteous men do rejoice, there is great glory: but when the wicked rise, a man is hidden. and

28 When the wicked rise, men hide themselves: but when they perish, the righteous increase.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Believer

yeah, this is the response I was taught as well, but it doesn't hold any water.

Why is that? Where are the holes?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

To be clear, Ignatius did not say begotten. We'd need to look at the greek or latin of this (depending on which version).....also if it was monogenes and begotten is not the correct translation then we need to take a look at the rest of it

Will this work?

Chap. VI. — Preserve Harmony.

Since therefore I have, in the persons before mentioned, beheld the whole multitude of you in faith and love, I exhort you to study to do all things with a divine harmony,13 while your bishop presides in the place of God, and your presbyters in the place of the assembly of the apostles, along with your deacons, who are most dear to me, and are entrusted with the ministry of Jesus Christ, who was with the Father before the beginning of time,14 and in the end was revealed. Do ye all then, imitating the same divine conduct,15 pay respect to one another, and let no one look upon his neighbour after the flesh, but do ye continually love each other in Jesus Christ. Let nothing exist among you that may divide you; but be ye united with your bishop, and those that preside over you, as a type and evidence of your immortality.16

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by Believer

yes, but what did Noetus teach? Who did Noetus believe he was? Remember, this is the first known modalist and Praxeas was his student.

Actually, some have suggested that Praxeas was a "derogatory term" coined by Hyppolytus to refer to Noetus (if I am remembering correctly). The name "Praxeas" simply means "troublemaker"... haha....

The only thing that we know about Noetus and Praxeas' teachings were what the "victors" wrote about them... i.e. Hyppolytus primarily. Again, I have some resources available to me, but not at my immediate disposal, that peices together the doctrine of Noetus and Praxeas from the antagonistic writings against them.

You keep mentioning the 1st and 2nd century writings, I have suggested several times that they were destroyed along with the 3rd and 4th century "heretical" writings... that is "heretical" according to the Roman Catholic church. Now we know that EVERYTHING the Roman Catholic church teaches and holds to are biblical absolutes, and EVERYTHING that disagrees with the Catholic dogma is "heresy" right? Are we in agreement with that?

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Why is that? Where are the holes?

because you don't have any proof of what you claim.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

God is good and his mercy is everlasting and his truth endures to all generations.

The righteous hide during persecution.

Proverbs 28:12 When righteous men do rejoice, there is great glory: but when the wicked rise, a man is hidden. and

28 When the wicked rise, men hide themselves: but when they perish, the righteous increase.

Yet some of these supposed Oneness remnant generation groups had the Godhead down but the Truth escaped them in other ways ... it doesn't hold water .... They were Holy Ghost filled as perceived by the 20th century PAJC view but the Spirit did not bring them to all truth ... nope.

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by Believer

yeah, this is the response I was taught as well, but it doesn't hold any water.

Why doesn't it hold water? It's holds more wather than the Catholic dogma of Mary Veneration, transubstantiation, and sprinkle baptism. Why in the world would you take a ROMAN CATHOLIC biased historian's word over the clear concise teachings of scripture?

Also, there have been some very bright scholars peice together early oneness believer's positions from their antagonist's writings. Again, I don't have those resources immediately available, I wish I did. I have read them and they are VERY convincing!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Believer

Will this work?

Chap. VI. — Preserve Harmony.

Since therefore I have, in the persons before mentioned, beheld the whole multitude of you in faith and love, I exhort you to study to do all things with a divine harmony,13 while your bishop presides in the place of God, and your presbyters in the place of the assembly of the apostles, along with your deacons, who are most dear to me, and are entrusted with the ministry of Jesus Christ, who was with the Father before the beginning of time,14 and in the end was revealed. Do ye all then, imitating the same divine conduct,15 pay respect to one another, and let no one look upon his neighbour after the flesh, but do ye continually love each other in Jesus Christ. Let nothing exist among you that may divide you; but be ye united with your bishop, and those that preside over you, as a type and evidence of your immortality.16

Im not sure, but I think you meant that for Mizpeh? She asked for the context. I was wondering about the greek or latin for begotten

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Yet some of these supposed Oneness remnant generation groups had the Godhead down but the Truth escaped them in other ways ... it doesn't hold water .... They were Holy Ghost filled as perceived by the 20th century PAJC view but the Spirit did not bring them to all truth ... nope.

What truth did the Spirit not bring them to?