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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #21  
Old 09-02-2007, 09:27 AM
FEEDMYSHEEP
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Originally Posted by keith4him View Post
Can't agrue with the gist of your posting, house churches are the biblical model, but sadly it will be slow to catch on here, to use a Wolfgang Simson analogy. It is like someone has been making Xerox copies and no body never questioned to see if the original copy is the right one.

The current, pastor, building centered ministry with a de-mobilized laity that meets for special services was the model they told me to run with out of Bible College, but as I go older I questioned it effectiveness.

Pastor-limits saints ministry and makes them passive with three goals, pray, pay and obey.

Building Centered-leads to the idea that much of what God does only happens within the four walls of a designated building which limits God doing anything or very little outside of that model.

Special Structured Services-prohibits the I Cor. 14:26 type of ministry from happening.

But alas, after reading this it only makes me depressed, longing so much to see this reality, but seems so far away, a pipe dream.
House to house meaning....spreading and teaching the word of God.
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  #22  
Old 09-08-2007, 05:14 PM
Titus2Mom
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Originally Posted by feedmysheep View Post
The Apostle Teaching From House To House.

The True Church Is You! Not Made Hand Or Building.

Amen!
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  #23  
Old 09-08-2007, 05:16 PM
Titus2Mom
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Originally Posted by ChristopherHall View Post
Here are some Scriptures implying where the early church conducted it's gatherings...

Acts 2:1-2
1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.(KJV)

Acts 2:46
46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,(KJV)

Acts 8:3
3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.(KJV)

Acts 20:20
20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,(KJV)

Romans. 16:3-5
3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:
4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.
5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.(KJV)

1 Corinthians. 16:19
19 The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house. (KJV)

Colossians. 4:15
15 Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.(KJV)

It seems like the New Testament pattern leaned more toward holding Christian worship in the home as opposed to a constructed edifice. One would assume this was on account of persecution. I know in Iraq they found an ancient home that was a gathering place with an entire room modeled to be a baptismal (surely this illustrates the importance of baptism in the early years of the church). I'm not denigrating the idea of assembling in a church, I'm just making an observation. This would explain why the early Church could easily support the ministry, care for the poor, widows, and the needy. Without the overhead costs of construction and property their finances were free for direct mission support and benevolence.

It is interesting to note that "church buildings" as we know them were not built until 250 to 300 years after the time of the Apostles. It's interesting because the Apostles didn't ever choose to establish a "Christian synagogue" or "house of worship" other than the home. It's often claimed that this was because of persecution...yet even when doing rather well Christians still chose to congregate in smaller congregations based in homes over meeting in temples or buildings made especially for worship. While many view their decision to meet in homes as a necessity of circumstance...could there be more to it? Could the Apostles have chosen to meet and establish congregations in homes by design?

The first century church spread like wildfire throughout the Roman Empire. What did they do that allowed for this to happen? We know they walked in the power and anointing of the Spirit of God, but was more to their methods? It seems that Paul and others routinely established several churches in a given city while traveling and spreading the good news of Jesus Christ. They did this as they communed with individuals "house to house".

By the time the Apostles left a city they may have had a few "churches" established in homes throughout the community. This allowed for the church to grow exponentially throughout the region in a very short period of time. We see the same trends in nations such as China and Korea where there has been resistance to Christianity when the church has resorted to meeting privately in homes. The first century church had no concern over land or property but rather pooled their resources and put them toward sustaining the ministry, charity, and evangelism.

I once read how on average, American churches spend nearly 80% of their resources on property (building, maintenance, grounds, utilities, etc.) and around 20% on charity and outreach. The New Testament model in the book of Acts appears to invert those statistics. The early New Testament church appears to have use 80% or more of it's resources for evangelism and charity with 20% or less being spent on actual property. Their primary concern were "souls" therefore their simplicity and their budget reflected that vision.

Such a model today would allow for a number of "churches" to be established in various homes throughout a city or metropolitan area very quickly. It wouldn't be a conventional "church planting" it would be a movement, a silent tidal wave if you will, of believers gathering in the harvest in their homes. Institutional churches in an area wouldn't be able to compete with a steadily growing movement of local churches gathering in homes. The closeness of community, fellowship, and relevant teaching would leave all the glitz and thronging masses of belching mega churches ringing hollow. Such small gatherings would also allow for a more personal or intimate setting for expounding upon holiness. Such holiness and Christian simplicity could be witnessed by those attending in the very home where they gathered.

Also money hungry charismatic mega churches wouldn't be able to compete with a message unclouded by the pressure of the prosperity gospel to "give give give and be blessed". Many fear churches are only out for their money. Sadly, mega churches have mega expenses and yes...there is pressure to get as much money as possible to sustain the mega operation. Anyone familiar with the quacks on television have seen this. A humble church gathered in a minister's home would offer a safe haven, a shelter in the storm, from such extortion. The sole focus of the New Testament church model is...Jesus only.

Here's another question on my mind; do we put too much emphasis on church buildings? I'm not saying it's wrong to have a church building, I'm only asking if our focus is sometimes more on physical structures than on the huddled masses of those truly in need who are lost in the shadows of our steeples? Do the financial burden of our churches often limit our ability to glorify the Father by doing good to those in need? And can the overwhelming expense often reduce a preacher to a hireling?

I've been studying the "house church movement" and thought it would make an interesting discussion. How would you view an Apostolic pastor if he felt that "house churching" was the biblical model for the church?

I don't know. Just some thoughts I had. Never mind me, sometimes I think too much. lol

Love y'all.
Excellent, excellent post ChristopherHall! This is something I have pondered on for the past several years. Where is our biblical model? I hunger for the "real church."
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  #24  
Old 09-08-2007, 05:26 PM
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Felicity Felicity is offline
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I love and prefer church as I know it - in other words a corporate gathering of believers with a somewhat structured service along the example set in the New Testament regarding worship and instruction.

However, the way church is getting to be nowadays sometimes I think getting together in a home would be WAY more simple and perhaps more pleasing to God and more edifying.

Particularly when you're the pastor or leader.
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  #25  
Old 12-13-2007, 10:30 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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My pastor states that he supports cell groups. But I'm increasingly leaning toward the full house church model.
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  #26  
Old 01-18-2008, 03:40 AM
AnotherTrave
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Originally Posted by keith4him View Post
Can't agrue with the gist of your posting, house churches are the biblical model, but sadly it will be slow to catch on here, to use a Wolfgang Simson analogy. It is like someone has been making Xerox copies and no body never questioned to see if the original copy is the right one.

The current, pastor, building centered ministry with a de-mobilized laity that meets for special services was the model they told me to run with out of Bible College, but as I go older I questioned it effectiveness.

Pastor-limits saints ministry and makes them passive with three goals, pray, pay and obey.

Building Centered-leads to the idea that much of what God does only happens within the four walls of a designated building which limits God doing anything or very little outside of that model.

Special Structured Services-prohibits the I Cor. 14:26 type of ministry from happening.

But alas, after reading this it only makes me depressed, longing so much to see this reality, but seems so far away, a pipe dream.
What an excellent post.
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  #27  
Old 01-19-2008, 06:03 PM
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brotherjason brotherjason is offline
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Hey Brother Hall, I see you're as creative with forum names as I am! We are actually starting a home church in our hometown for many reasons. Maybe it will grow too big for a house, we will have to deal with that when it happens. From my studies "Christians" didn't start meeting in specific "church buildings" until Constantine decided to be a good little abomination and kicked all the temple priests out and gave the idol worshiping temples to the "Christians". The reason I use quotation marks is that this was the beginning of the roman catholic abomination. I've saw where some people will go as far as saying that Constantine was actually the first pope.
Another interesting thing I've found is that during the reformation Martin Luther actually pushed for the idea of meeting in houses for awhile (too bad he didn't come the rest of the way out of catholicism!
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  #28  
Old 01-20-2008, 08:58 AM
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Digging4Truth Digging4Truth is offline
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Originally Posted by brotherjason View Post
Hey Brother Hall, I see you're as creative with forum names as I am! We are actually starting a home church in our hometown for many reasons. Maybe it will grow too big for a house, we will have to deal with that when it happens. From my studies "Christians" didn't start meeting in specific "church buildings" until Constantine decided to be a good little abomination and kicked all the temple priests out and gave the idol worshiping temples to the "Christians". The reason I use quotation marks is that this was the beginning of the roman catholic abomination. I've saw where some people will go as far as saying that Constantine was actually the first pope.
Another interesting thing I've found is that during the reformation Martin Luther actually pushed for the idea of meeting in houses for awhile (too bad he didn't come the rest of the way out of catholicism!
Here is a link to a pdf version of a wonderful book on the subject. It is called Houses That Change the World.

On the subject of when a house church becomes to big for ones home there is a excellent section that begins on page 26. The first subsection is called "How To Break The 20-Barrier"

Enjoy.
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  #29  
Old 01-21-2008, 09:48 AM
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brotherjason brotherjason is offline
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Great, thank you, I saved it to favorites so I can read it in a bit.
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  #30  
Old 01-21-2008, 12:43 PM
Rudy Rudy is offline
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Highly Recommend this book for this subject--a real Eye opener on the buildings we call church--a must read--

http://www.paganchristianity.org/
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