Are we Modalist or Unitarian?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

For the Church there is ONLY one God, even the Father.
For the Church there is ONLY one Lord, even Jesus.

If we can hold to that the truth of Oneness can come forth.

Apostle Thomas:

28: And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28

If Jesus was Thomas's Lord he was also his God. Jesus was BOTH to Thomas.

And if he was God to Thomas he was God the Father. He shared a common Apostolic faith in Messiah.

Paul said to US there is One God even the Father. So if Jesus is God he is God the Father.

The answer to 1 Cor. 8:6 is that rather than separating the One God and the One Lord Paul is simply identifying the one who is both.

The Greek word KAI means EVEN as much as it means and.

When read in this manner the thought of 2 god beings vanishes.

"yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; EVEN one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are are all things, and through whom we live."

That goes right along with Hear O Israel The Lord our God is ONE.

I know you can shade it all to what you want it to say because it fits the separatation that the op position affirms.

I believe in one God, but I am not afraid of the fact that God is not a man, nor can He be contained with human definition.

Further I don't believe that God rejects the majority of confessing Christians today and thoughout history because they see and define the Godhead in a little different manner.

This is not God's purpose, he sent His Son into the world to seek and to save, not to hide the truth behind some difficult understanding of ALL that He is man has always divided and separated, Jesus calls sinners to faith and repentance and a changed life. JMHO

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Chan

More so than Trinitarians even.

Right, separate individuals, not sharing the same essence of being

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by crakjak

I know you can shade it all to what you want it to say because it fits the separatation that the op position affirms.

I believe in one God, but I am not afraid of the fact that God is not a man, nor can He be contained with human definition.

Further I don't believe that God rejects the majority of confessing Christians today and thoughout history because they see and define the Godhead in a little different manner.

This is not God's purpose, he sent His Son into the world to seek and to save, not to hide the truth behind some difficult understanding of ALL that He is man has always divided and separated, Jesus calls sinners to faith and repentance and a changed life. JMHO

Shade it? You explain it then. If there is only one God and he is the Father and Jesus is God why does that not make him the Father?

And if the same one who is Thomas Lord (Jesus) is his God how could Jesus NOT be both?

You teach me.

[mizpeh]

I'm modalist in the sense that God can manifest Himself as Father, Son, Holy Spirit at the same time.

[Digging4Truth]

I have posted the scriptures below in this thread once before. Just one simple question about them.

Per these scriptures below.... in your opinion... does it seem that the apostles drew a very real distinction between the father and the son?

Read through them all. Very often they will say "God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ"

The also would give thanks (& probably pray) TO the father IN THE NAME of Jesus Christ. We are instructed in the word to pray TO the father and to do all we do in word or deed IN THE NAME of Jesus Christ.

Do you feel, from these scriptures, that the apostles drew a distinction between the father (even referred to as God) and the son (referred to as Lord)

Jhn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

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Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called [to be] saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

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Rom 15:6 That ye may with one mind [and] one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

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1Cr 1:3 Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ.

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1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

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2Cr 1:2 Grace [be] to you and peace from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ.

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2Cr 1:3 Blessed [be] God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

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2Cr 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

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Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead

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Gal 1:3 Grace [be] to you and peace from God the Father, and [from] our Lord Jesus Christ,

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Eph 1:2 Grace [be] to you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ.

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Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:

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Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

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Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

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Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

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Eph 6:23 Peace [be] to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

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Phl 1:2 Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ.

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Phl 2:11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

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Col 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

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Col 1:3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,

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Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, [do] all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

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1Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians [which is] in God the Father and [in] the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

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1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

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1Th 3:11 Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.

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1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

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2Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

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2Th 1:2 Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

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2Th 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given [us] everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

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1Ti 1:2 Unto Timothy, [my] own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, [and] peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

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2Ti 1:2 To Timothy, [my] dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, [and] peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

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Tts 1:4 To Titus, [mine] own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, [and] peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

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Phm 1:3 Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

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1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

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1Pe 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

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1Jo 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

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1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

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1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

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2Jo 1:3 Grace be with you, mercy, [and] peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

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Jud 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, [and] called:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Shade it? You explain it then. If there is only one God and he is the Father and Jesus is God why does that not make him the Father?

And if the same one who is Thomas Lord (Jesus) is his God how could Jesus NOT be both?

You teach me.

Because "Jesus" is the name given to God's only begotten Son. It is not the name of God. "Jesus" refers only to God's only begotten Son and not to God Himself.

[Nahum]

We're Oneness

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

We're Oneness

And your point?

[Nahum]

We're not modalist ot unitarian - we're Oneness.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Shade it? You explain it then. If there is only one God and he is the Father and Jesus is God why does that not make him the Father?

And if the same one who is Thomas Lord (Jesus) is his God how could Jesus NOT be both?

You teach me.

I said as OP's we have been afraid of scripture and actually intellectually dishonest. Afraid to be honest about scriptural distinction between Father and Son.

I Corinthians 15.28, "Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all."
With scripture like this I accept there is distinction, and it cannot simply be explained by saying "flesh and spirit", this verse clearly declares two distinct entities interacting with each other.

You can call this manifestations or whatever you want, some simply call it persons, even though I don't like the use of persons I will not discard my Christians brothers and sisters just b/c that is the way they have been taught to define how God presents Himself to man.

To separate believers because they process information differently would be similar to you rejecting one of your children because of different temperament. Does this mean we should not teach what we believe doctrinally, of course not. But in the attaining of knowledge, we must get wisdom and that requires the whole council of God.