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  #21  
Old 07-27-2007, 11:24 PM
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Beard Beard is offline
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Quote:
Praxeas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson View Post
Yes JA is very anti -oneness ,He needs you Prax to come on his show and set him straight.
He already had Sabin and we saw how that went. Sabin and Urshan had the least amount of time to speak. Martin has the most. The questions were all Trinitarian proof texts with Oneness always being on the defensive. The show, the final production cut, was heavily edited in favor of the Trinity
gotta watch that editing...yes, it was definitely in favor of the Trinity side...of course JA would not, could not allow the Oneness believers to edit the show alongside their Trinitarian editors.

I also vote for Prax to go on and set him straight....
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  #22  
Old 07-27-2007, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam View Post
Anybody know what the honorarium is this year for camp meeting evening speaker for a large UPC district?
I knew when I saw the author and the title of this thread you would make it all about the UPC. It didn't even take you 3 posts. (Thankfully, no one took your bait. From the looks of it you lost interest in your own thread when no one jumped on your bandwagon.)

Get a life, Sam. There is a whole world of cruise-a-matic preachers out there who get more for a few sermons than our highest paid evangelists make in a year.

Now Sam, run along. See if you can find some other thread to start under the guise of a good topic only to come back and offer another insult. But hey, try to wait a few more posts next time, okay?
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  #23  
Old 07-27-2007, 11:39 PM
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Trouvere Trouvere is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam View Post
Anybody know what the honorarium is this year for camp meeting evening speaker for a large UPC district?
Brother Sam,
I know you aren't UPC.Why the mention this? Is it an insinuation?I hope not.
Its a low blow and either you are not as I assumed or this was a bad
judgement on your part.
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  #24  
Old 07-28-2007, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam View Post
Online editorial from Charisma Magazine for 7/27/07

The Deadly Virus of Celebrity Christianity
By J. Lee. Grady

Some bigheaded preachers demand rock star treatment. If the apostle Paul were around today he might throw rocks at them.

Just when I thought we charismatics had finally taken enough abuse from the egomaniac ministers in our midst, I’ve learned that some of our leaders are taking things to a new extreme. We’ve moved beyond the red carpets, limousines and entourages of the 1990s. A new strain of the celebrity virus is spreading in large segments of the church.

One friend of mine in Texas recently inquired to see if a prominent preacher could speak at her conference. The minister’s assistant faxed back a list of requirements that had to be met in order to book a speaking engagement. The demands included:

* a five-figure honorarium
* a $10,000 gasoline deposit for the private plane
* a manicurist and hairstylist for the speaker
* a suite in a five-star hotel
* a luxury car from the airport to the hotel (2004 model or newer)
* room-temperature Perrier

This really makes me wonder how the apostle Paul, Timothy or Priscilla managed ministering to so many people in Ephesus, Corinth and Thessalonica. How did they survive without a manicurist if they broke a nail while laying hands on the sick?

I was relieved to know that this celebrity preacher’s requirements in 2007 did not include a set of armed bodyguards—because I just might want to jump uninvited into her Rolls-Royce and say a few words.

It gets worse, if you can believe it. At a charismatic conference in an East Coast city recently, a pastor stood on a stage in front of a large crowd and smugly announced that the guest speaker was “more than an apostle.” Then the host asked everyone to bow down to the person, claiming that this posture was necessary to release God’s power.

“This is the only way you can receive this kind of anointing!” the host declared, bowing in front of the speaker. Immediately, about 80 percent of the audience fell prostrate on the floor. The few who were uncomfortable with the weird spiritual control in the room either walked out or stood in silent protest.

So today, I guess it’s not enough to feed a celebrity preacher’s ego by treating them like a rock star. We also are required to worship him.

And apparently in some places you even have to pay big bucks to speak with him. In a city in the South, a well-known preacher is known to ask for money in order to secure a five- or 10-minute counseling session. The minister uses Proverbs 18:16, “A man’s gift makes room for him and brings him before great men” (NASB), to support this bizarre practice. Some people are known to give more than $1,000 for a short meeting.

People on fixed incomes need not apply. (That would include lepers, blind beggars, Samaritan women or any other social outcasts who were welcomed and healed by Jesus without payment.)

What has become of the American church? What is this sickness spreading in the body of Christ? I don’t know whom to blame more for it: The narcissistic minister who craves the attention, or the spiritually naive crowds who place these arrogant people on their shaky pedestals. All I know is that God is grieved by all of this shameful carnality.

How far we have fallen from authentic New Testament faith. Paul, who carried the anointing of an apostle but often described himself as a bond slave, told the Thessalonians, “Having so fond an affection for you, we were well-pleased to impart to you not only the gospel of God but also our own lives” (1 Thess. 2:.

New Testament Christianity is humble, selfless and authentic. And those who carry the truth don’t preach for selfish gain or to meet an emotional need for attention. May God help us root out the false apostles and false teachers who are making the American church sick with their man-centered, money-focused heresies.

J. Lee Grady is editor of Charisma.
I admire J. Lee Grady for speaking out. I have felt in the past that Charisma has not tackled any of these issues because so much of their advertising revenue comes from major charismatic ministries advertising their conferences, meetings, books, etc in its pages.

It looks like enough is enough though and they are beginning to call attention to the travesty that is the prosperity gospel and its offshoots.

When wealth building is emphasized as THE gospel the sickening behaviour described in this article is the inevitable result.

No doubt many of these ministries started out with pure motives, intents, etc but it is clear carnality now rules.

I don't know how these jokers think they are going to face the Lord on judgement day with what they have done to the Gospel message.
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  #25  
Old 07-28-2007, 12:14 AM
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crakjak crakjak is offline
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Originally Posted by Pig Pen View Post
I knew when I saw the author and the title of this thread you would make it all about the UPC. It didn't even take you 3 posts. (Thankfully, no one took your bait. From the looks of it you lost interest in your own thread when no one jumped on your bandwagon.)

Get a life, Sam. There is a whole world of cruise-a-matic preachers out there who get more for a few sermons than our highest paid evangelists make in a year.

Now Sam, run along. See if you can find some other thread to start under the guise of a good topic only to come back and offer another insult. But hey, try to wait a few more posts next time, okay?
Why don't you jump in the creek and wash the pig off ya, Sam is an honorable man, and does not have a habit of blasting the UPC. Maybe he thought the contrast would be instructive, not a slam intended.
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  #26  
Old 07-28-2007, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by crakjak View Post
Why don't you jump in the creek and wash the pig off ya, Sam is an honorable man, and does not have a habit of blasting the UPC. Maybe he thought the contrast would be instructive, not a slam intended.
Never said he wasn't honorable. But I do believe Ol' Sam has taken his fair amount of shots at the UPCI.

And there ain't no other way to read his post from what I can see. Maybe you can explain, other than the lame "contrast" excuse?
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  #27  
Old 07-28-2007, 12:22 AM
Rico Rico is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
I wonder when women with long long hair will demand payment to release angels

.

Shhhhhhh! Don't give them any ideas!
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  #28  
Old 07-28-2007, 12:26 AM
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Felicity Felicity is offline
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Grady made some important points in my opinion.
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  #29  
Old 07-28-2007, 12:33 AM
Rico Rico is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pig Pen View Post
I knew when I saw the author and the title of this thread you would make it all about the UPC. It didn't even take you 3 posts. (Thankfully, no one took your bait. From the looks of it you lost interest in your own thread when no one jumped on your bandwagon.)

Get a life, Sam. There is a whole world of cruise-a-matic preachers out there who get more for a few sermons than our highest paid evangelists make in a year.

Now Sam, run along. See if you can find some other thread to start under the guise of a good topic only to come back and offer another insult. But hey, try to wait a few more posts next time, okay?
Why are you picking on Sam? He is one of the nicest posters around here. The least you can do is give him the benefit of your doubt. Maybe he asked the question just as a way of comparison; not is a negative way either.
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  #30  
Old 07-28-2007, 01:08 AM
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crakjak crakjak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pig Pen View Post
Never said he wasn't honorable. But I do believe Ol' Sam has taken his fair amount of shots at the UPCI.

And there ain't no other way to read his post from what I can see. Maybe you can explain, other than the lame "contrast" excuse?
The UPCI deserves its fair share of "shots", because we can be honest and discuss areas of disagreement does not indicate malicious intent.:sshhh
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