The Concept of Biblical Separation

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by shamgar1

If we are to be separate in the classic Oneness Pentecostal understanding of the word, why are we not in cloistered communities?

Have we really "come out from among them"? Why do we only measure separation in terms of dress? Aren't there other areas we should separate ourselves from as well?

There is a saying...that if you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything. There is MUCH more to being separate from the world than dress (although dress is certainly important). But we also draw other lines. We say you shouldn't drink or go to bars. We say you should not cuss. We say you should not partake of tobacco, gamble, or engage in off-color humor. None of these things involve clothing issues.

There are a lot of people trying to water down the importance of holiness convictions regarding dress as though they were unimportant personal convictions or even simply antiquated preferences....but if the way we dress is so totally unimportant, then why did Paul (the anti-Legalist) and Peter both address these issues? They addressed them because they were issues even at the time of the primitive church.

I think a tremendous amount of this assault on conservative standards of dress has been the result of public television, movies, and worldly music. Separation starts in the home, in one's personal life...and you can't take the world's entertainment scene into your home (along with all of it's baggage) and keep it everything else intact...particularly when young people are involved. You can't parade the attractions of the world in front of them and ask them not to hear the call of the wild...while sitting in what passes for a Pentecostal living room.

The erosion of the standard against the wordly entertainment media has now progressed to an erosion of standards of clothing and modesty. And now we're seeing cussing, chewing tobacco, smoking, gambling, and social drinking being treated like "just personal convictions" that the church has no right to speak against with authority.

[RandyWayne]

Now that doesn't sound very appetizing! LOL!

Oh, it is excellent! In the same vein as sour dough bread is great even though you wouldn't eat or drink anything that is sour (that isn't meant to be) in and by itself.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Felicity

In regard to cloistered communities .... sometimes I think it would be a good idea. It certainly was an idea embraced by the early church saints. Not sure how long it was practiced but I can see benefits.

Bible said we're IN the world, not OF it. There's a difference. Not everything in the world is bad. Not everything the world does is bad. We have to separate ourselves from that which would be UNGodly and ANTI-God.

Our spiritual citizenship is that of another country - a heavenly city.

How do we separate ourselves - specifically? To what extent - specifically? Talk to 12 people. You'll have at least 12 different answers.

How could this possibly be a good idea? How can you win the lost if you're isolated from them?

We would become just like the Amish, which I guess is ok if it's just your goal to create a little exclusive club that no one who was not born into could be a part of.

Polaris,

I think some of the push against standards also has to do with some making the standard the issue and forgetting the principle too.

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by DEAK

Polaris,

I think some of the push against standards also has to do with some making the standard the issue and forgetting the principle too.

I agree, Deak...you're right. We have seen a generation of kids grow up to become adults and have kids of their own, and all they ever saw were the do's and the don't's WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING THE UNDERLYING ISSUES. There are very sound, solid reasons for the things we do---the erosion of morality, confusion of genders, rebellion against traditional principles....and the way so much of this was driven by the worldly media industry (including Hollywood and pop music) is so easy to demonstrate and sources are so readily available, yet many churches seemingly didn't bother.

If you've got a wayward, rebellious heart and you don't understand the PRINCIPLES BEHIND the standards, then there aren't enough do's and don't's that can be written to keep you saved. On the otherhand, we've seen a lot of people whose standards were rather loose, but who grasped the principles and God led them to a deeper understanding, and their standards followed suit.

[Sister Alvear]

John 8:15-18
15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. 16 But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me." (Jesus)
NIV

[Sister Alvear]

Ezek 5:7

7 "Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: You have been more unruly than the nations around you and have not followed my decrees or kept my laws. You have not even conformed to the standards of the nations around you.
NIV

2 Cor 10:2-6
2 I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. 3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6 And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.
NIV

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

Do blab-it-and-grab-its never tire of trying to pull down the standards so they can be conspicuously consumed of their jealousy of the things of the world without losing their standing in the church?

And your opinion is WRONG. Well, for me, at least.



And some will argue that because they have run into a handful of Apostolic Pharisees in their life, that the entire population of people who lovingly surrender to God as much of their lives as they understand they ought to (people that adhere to standards for the right reasons) are a bunch of judgmental legalistic wingnuts.

Improper methods employed to attain a goal do not invalidate the goal.

The secular world never stops judging each other - they just use a man-made yardstick.

Did you get up on the wrong coast this morning? It never ceases to amaze me how judgmental we get toward those we feel are being judgmental.

Three deep breathes and come back to rational thinking.

Blessings, Rhoni

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Ezek 5:7

7 "Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: You have been more unruly than the nations around you and have not followed my decrees or kept my laws. You have not even conformed to the standards of the nations around you.
NIV

2 Cor 10:2-6
2 I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. 3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6 And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.
NIV

So the weapons we have to fight with is what separates from the world - - and I guess we wouldn't need those weapons if we lived secluded away from the world, right?

[Sister Alvear]

2 Cor 10:7-11:1
7 You are looking only on the surface of things. If anyone is confident that he belongs to Christ, he should consider again that we belong to Christ just as much as he. 8 For even if I boast somewhat freely about the authority the Lord gave us for building you up rather than pulling you down, I will not be ashamed of it. 9 I do not want to seem to be trying to frighten you with my letters. 10 For some say, "His letters are weighty and forceful, but in person he is unimpressive and his speaking amounts to nothing." 11 Such people should realize that what we are in our letters when we are absent, we will be in our actions when we are present.

12 We do not dare to classify or compare ourselves with some who commend themselves. When they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are not wise. 13 We, however, will not boast beyond proper limits, but will confine our boasting to the field God has assigned to us, a field that reaches even to you. 14 We are not going too far in our boasting, as would be the case if we had not come to you, for we did get as far as you with the gospel of Christ. 15 Neither do we go beyond our limits by boasting of work done by others. Our hope is that, as your faith continues to grow, our area of activity among you will greatly expand, 16 so that we can preach the gospel in the regions beyond you. For we do not want to boast about work already done in another man's territory. 17 But, "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord." 18 For it is not the one who commends himself who is approved, but the one whom the Lord commends.


NIV