Pastors. How to paralyze the Hebrew Roots doctrine

[Tithesmeister]

"Yet, requires everyone to get their name changed from their birth name to a Hebrew name once you convert."

Ummm. How do you say Tithesmeister in Hebrew?

Isn't it already in Hebrew?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Hey, you spent some time with the 12 Tribes Community? Are they the same "12 Tribes" someone might have met at the Bonnaroo Music Festival? They are some real chill cats. lol

Ummmm. Asking for a friend.

Yes, that would be the same 12 Tribes Hippy communists turned Hebrew Rootists.

Yes, they are very chill, and sweet people.

But I also know a lot of Hindus who live communally who are super duper chill, and very sweet people. Yet, I wouldn't want to join either groups. Jewish Kibbutzim have some chill people as well, and sweet people as long as you aren't a Palestinian.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

"Yet, requires everyone to get their name changed from their birth name to a Hebrew name once you convert."

Ummm. How do you say Tithesmeister in Hebrew?

Isn't it already in Hebrew?

No, nicknames, but the group would like you to get your name change at conversion. Also you no longer have anything that you own, personally. It is a commune, and therefore everything is shared. They use Acts 4:32-35 as their proof text. My wife and I first met them when I was preaching in New York. I spent time with them in Ithaca, and then I caught up with them at a huge gathering they had in Washington D.C.. They ended up in Arcadia and Fort Meyers Florida. They are moving from their Fort Meyers community and opening a farm north of Fort Meyers. They are sweet people, very sincere, just sincerely wrong.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Yes, that would be the same 12 Tribes Hippy communists turned Hebrew Rootists.

Yes, they are very chill, and sweet people.

But I also know a lot of Hindus who live communally who are super duper chill, and very sweet people. Yet, I wouldn't want to join either groups. Jewish Kibbutzim have some chill people as well, and sweet people as long as you aren't a Palestinian.

Awesome!

I wouldn't join them either. But they can be cool to hang out with, especially at a place like Bonnaroo. Or... so I've heard.

Ah, yes.... good times.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I have met a lot, I have spent time with the 12 Tribes Community, met Yoneq, its leader, who doesn't speak Hebrew. Yet, requires everyone to get their name changed from their birth name to a Hebrew name once you convert. One day I asked a group of them if they spoke Hebrew? All at the same time they said "NO."

I dealt with many Messianic Synagogues across the United States, Yahwist groups here in Florida, and in New York. When I was in my teens I knew a girl who was in a Messianic congregation. The "Rabbi" was her dad, and he taught them classes in Hebrew. But, even that group didn't study the language to better know the scripture, they studied it to speak it in heaven?

Yet, Elder Epley is correct, while there are many Hebrew Roots groups the majority know very little Hebrew. Most of what they know come from a Strong's Concordance. The whole J situation and Hey Zeus issue shows a total dishonesty towards language study. Also, we have so many who believe Hebrew to be a holy language. Yet, can only say names of Bible characters and Bible books in Hebrew, but really don't understand the language.

Mike, how much Hebrew can you speak? Does your wife speak Hebrew? Your children?

First off define what you mean when you say "Hebrew Roots Movement". It seems to be like when one says "Charismatic Movement" or "Apostolic Movement". There may be hundreds of thousands or millions of people within these movements. So would you say that of all those people you have met 5 per cent of them? 1 per cent of them?Even that would be a tremendous number of people for you to have met and understand their beliefs.

There may be minor or major differences among them. I have met a fair number of people who either put a high value on knowing the original Hebrew name or at least like to use it who do not teach one must obey Moses. I myself fit somewhere in that area.

Some teach using anything but the version they use will be lost and demand law keeping.

Now unbelievably among "Apostolics" there are thoses who teach it is a sin for a man to wear a beard or for a woman to trim her hair! I know, shocking but true. And yet...they take the name "Apostolic" for themselves as if the Apostles taught such trite.

Even more shocking among Apostolics there are those who teach that Jesus Christ came back for his Church 20 centuries ago! So among Apostolics there can be wide variance of doctrine as there can be among those who like "Hebrew Roots".

Now as far as people among them not speaking Hebrew Im sure the majority dont. But I have seen various video's of ones that do and I'm sure would be glad to answer your challenges.

I speak nor read Hebrew or Greek. Come to think of it of all the millions of American Christians who believe the Bible was originally written in Greek what per cent of THEM speak Greek?

I have been around many Bible believers in the last 43 years among various movements and as I think about it I can remember ONE MAN who was taking Greek in school. Not that he was fluent in it but he was learning.

So what does that prove? Since out of possibly thousands of believers I have talked to personally I dont know one who could say they were fluent in Greek? Does it prove Greek is not the original language or that anyone would be in error for being interested in it?

So I dont consider myself a Hebrew Roots believer. I have interest in the Hebrew roots because ALMOST the entire Old Testament was given in Hebrew! So if one said they had NO INTEREST in Hebrew Roots they are saying they have no interest in the greater part of the Bible.

There are no doubt many false believers among Hebrew Roots people. Agreed. Yet I can say from experience there are many false "Apostolic" believers.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

The interesting thing to me about this movement I have not met a single one who speaks Hebrew.

Do you speak Greek? Must we?

[Tithesmeister]

I'm with Michael the Disciple. I don't know Greek or Hebrew. I have a rough time with English some days. I don't think it affects my salvation.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

First off define what you mean when you say "Hebrew Roots Movement". It seems to be like when one says "Charismatic Movement" or "Apostolic Movement". There may be hundreds of thousands or millions of people within these movements. So would you say that of all those people you have met 5 per cent of them? 1 per cent of them?Even that would be a tremendous number of people for you to have met and understand their beliefs.

There may be minor or major differences among them. I have met a fair number of people who either put a high value on knowing the original Hebrew name or at least like to use it who do not teach one must obey Moses. I myself fit somewhere in that area.

Some teach using anything but the version they use will be lost and demand law keeping.

Now unbelievably among "Apostolics" there are thoses who teach it is a sin for a man to wear a beard or for a woman to trim her hair! I know, shocking but true. And yet...they take the name "Apostolic" for themselves as if the Apostles taught such trite.

Even more shocking among Apostolics there are those who teach that Jesus Christ came back for his Church 20 centuries ago! So among Apostolics there can be wide variance of doctrine as there can be among those who like "Hebrew Roots".

Now as far as people among them not speaking Hebrew Im sure the majority dont. But I have seen various video's of ones that do and I'm sure would be glad to answer your challenges.

I speak nor read Hebrew or Greek. Come to think of it of all the millions of American Christians who believe the Bible was originally written in Greek what per cent of THEM speak Greek?

I have been around many Bible believers in the last 43 years among various movements and as I think about it I can remember ONE MAN who was taking Greek in school. Not that he was fluent in it but he was learning.

So what does that prove? Since out of possibly thousands of believers I have talked to personally I dont know one who could say they were fluent in Greek? Does it prove Greek is not the original language or that anyone would be in error for being interested in it?

So I dont consider myself a Hebrew Roots believer. I have interest in the Hebrew roots because ALMOST the entire Old Testament was given in Hebrew! So if one said they had NO INTEREST in Hebrew Roots they are saying they have no interest in the greater part of the Bible.

There are no doubt many false believers among Hebrew Roots people. Agreed. Yet I can say from experience there are many false "Apostolic" believers.

Brother Michael, no one needs to know any language other than the one they speak. But, let me ask you this, Apostolic Ultra Conservative, have you been to everyone of their churches?

[houston]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Father, help our friend, Sean. I ask that you give him peace and help him sort through his thoughts and beliefs so that he might feel greater stability in His walk with you. If something in his private life is troubling him, if he's feeling unheard at home, work, or church; if he's troubled as time honored beliefs and traditions fall to the wayside, if what he has been taught has caused him to feel alone as others explore greater truths, if he's feeling frustrated in the calling you have for him, if he has any health problems... I ask that you would reach into His situation as a loving and kind Father and minister peace, healing, and spiritual assurance to him. Put angels around Sean and those he cares about. Let him know that there is a truth that transcends doctrinal opinions and interpretations... the truth of personally knowing you, and help him know that this is all that truly matters. I ask that, should his time away from us be only temporary, when he returns, he returns refreshed, humbled, and walking in your peace. All this I pray in Jesus name. Amen.

You’re doing this again

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Brother Michael, no one needs to know any language other than the one they speak. But, let me ask you this, Apostolic Ultra Conservative, have you been to everyone of their churches?

So thats all you have to say about what I said? So I suppose you did get my point that not all "Hebrew Roots" people are the same?

So your question to me works the same as my question to you. No I have not been to the hundreds of Ultra Con Churches so I cant say ALL when I am making a point about them. You will note many times I say ALMOST all of a certain group does this or that.

What I CAN do is to simply ask a certain person of their belief. If one asks me of my belief I will tell them. I may not get bogged down in explaining every single detail UNLESS I think the person is actually learning something.

I was appointed as an Elder in an Apostolic Ultra Con Church back in 1981 in a body familiar to Steve Eply in Springfield Ohio. So there is a stream of Ultra Con belief that I understand.