Before the beginning...what?

[thephnxman]

His NAME is Jesus!

Originally Posted by Sean

Good post.

Jesus is Lord.


Brother Villa

[thephnxman]

His NAME is Jesus!

WELL, HERE'S MY TAKE, after the Lord made up His mind as to what to do:
(No, I wasn't there, and neither were you)

(A) The Lord chose a most minute place in eternity, and chose to enclose
it in time;
(B) God created the angels, knowing iniquity would be found in one of them;
(C) God placed the angelic rebels into that place enclosed in time;
(D) God created angels BEFORE He established grace.
(E) God then established the Laws of Creation:

1) God established Grace, whereby man (whom He knew would fall into sin)
would be saved;
2) God created the waters, and established their separation;
3) God created the "dry", and for it to have fruit;
4) God created time, and the heavenly bodies to denote time;
5) God created life to be in the waters, and in the air;
6) God formed the animals and formed man from the dust of the ground;
7) God rested, thereby promising a rest for mankind.

I believe those Laws are engraved in man: and we either submit to them, or
rebel against them.

Brother Villa

[Esaias]

I believe both Peter and Jude spoke rather harshly of those who accused angels of rebellion against God.

Does no one ever stop to ask: Where exactly is this prehistoric angelic rebellion taught in Scripture? Does it not seem strange to have a full blown doctrine outlining a complete scenario, yet no such scenario is described in scripture? The Biblical statements that supposedly support that scenario do not lay it all out, it's just "hints" and little suggestive statements that, taken in themselves, do not give the fallen angel scenario. So where'd it come from?

[thephnxman]

His NAME is Jesus!

Originally Posted by Esaias

I believe both (a) Peter and Jude spoke rather harshly of those who accused angels of rebellion against God.

Does no one ever stop to ask: Where exactly is this prehistoric angelic rebellion taught in Scripture? Does it not seem strange to have a full blown doctrine outlining a complete scenario, yet no such scenario is described in scripture? The Biblical statements that supposedly support that scenario do not lay it all out, it's just "hints" and little suggestive statements that, taken in themselves, do not give the fallen angel scenario. (b) So where'd it come from?

(a) "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he
disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing
accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."
Beloved, have we brought out a "railing accusation" against anyone?

(b) "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against
the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels..."

What is the Holy Spirit, the gifts of the Spirit, and the prophetic office?

Brother Villa

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

(b) "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against
the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels..."

This did not take place "in the beginning" but after the man-child was born and was caught up to heaven!

[Esaias]

The issue discussed more in depth here:

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=49089

[thephnxman]

His NAME is Jesus!

Originally Posted by Esaias

This did not take place "in the beginning" but after the man-child was born and was caught up to heaven!

Yes, I caught that: which brings up, I think, a bigger issue.

Is this "...man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron..." someone
other than the Lord Jesus?
And who is the woman that has grace shining upon her, and mercy under her
feet; she who has the apostles' doctrine for a crown?

Brother Villa

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

His NAME is Jesus!



Yes, I caught that: which brings up, I think, a bigger issue.

Is this "...man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron..." someone
other than the Lord Jesus?
And who is the woman that has grace shining upon her, and mercy under her
feet; she who has the apostles' doctrine for a crown?

Brother Villa

The man child is Jesus. The woman is Israel.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The man child is Jesus. The woman is Israel.

[thephnxman]

His NAME is Jesus!

Originally Posted by Esaias

The man child is Jesus. The woman is Israel.

Very Good.
So if the woman is Israel, then it's speaking about something in the future?
But the child was born 2,000 years ago...?
And it seems that the "war" between the angels is also future...but iniquity
was found in the archangel...when? You see the problem?

Let's roll it back: if the woman is Israel, where is the Church? Can there be
a redeemed Israel without the Church? Not according to the Apostle Paul.

"But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept
upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little..."

IT'S NOT LIKE READING A BOOK THROUGH: MORE LIKE READING A PUZZLE

Brother Villa