Post trib doctrine = Christ terrorizes His bride

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by consapente89

I have not personally met any Apostolics who have made the pre, mid, post debate into a test of fellowship.

Some on this forum make it a matter of salvation!

[n david]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Did God terrorize his Son? I mean after all he made him suffer an unimaginable terrible death? Was he into beating and persecuting him?

Think how this sounds.

Men persecuted, beat and crucified Jesus, not God.

Persecution by men is not the same as the tribulation and wrath of God.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by n david

Men persecuted, beat and crucified Jesus, not God.

Persecution by men is not the same as the tribulation and wrath of God.

Isaiah 53:10 reads that the LORD (YHVH) bruised the Messiah. Romans 8:32 reads God did not spare His own Son but handed Him over and gave Him up. Acts 2:23 reads God was the One who sent His Son to die by full, premeditated intention.

Sure, men were the agents, but the agency of the act was with God. Even Jesus told Pilate he could do nothing against Him except that it had been given to him by above (John 19:11).

Jesus knew full well that to be obedient to the will of the Father, who He always pleased, He had to be obedient even unto death, the death of the cross (Philippians 2:8).

Jesus was crucified because the Father wanted Him crucified.

[Sean]

Yes, that is why his Father forsook him and left him in the hands of men, so He would not have to forsake us and leave us.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Some on this forum make it a matter of salvation!

I don't. But what I do make a matter of salvation is when one continually lies and misrepresents the beliefs of others, even after many clarifications have been made. It's one thing to disagree with a teaching. It's another thing to invent a straw man version of a teaching and claim you are debating the actual version.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Some on this forum make it a matter of salvation!

Is pre trib heresy? Or is it true? Which? If its true its not heresy. If Jesus and the apostles taught pre trib its not heresy.

Which is it Mike?

[Sean]

Jesus said the entire bride would be sleeping.

They would not be aware.

This means the 3 angels of Rev. 14 never showed up yet, when the Bridegroom took the sleeping 5.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I don't. But what I do make a matter of salvation is when one continually lies and misrepresents the beliefs of others, even after many clarifications have been made. It's one thing to disagree with a teaching. It's another thing to invent a straw man version of a teaching and claim you are debating the actual version.

Yet, sometimes we often assume we have been as clear as possible in explaining a matter, but perhaps we were not. Or, regardless of how clearly we communicated, it can still be misunderstood, and so, unintentionally misrepresented by the one who didn't understand. That happens here and elsewhere a lot, more than we realize, sometimes.

Why shoot a man down and try to get him banned when you can't prove malicious intent? Even someone claiming to understand a point of discussion or doctrine doesn't make it so. It's just a claim, as much as saying someone is intentionally lying and misrepresenting the beliefs of others, regardless of the number of clarifications.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Yet, sometimes we often assume we have been as clear as possible in explaining a matter, but perhaps we were not. Or, regardless of how clearly we communicated, it can still be misunderstood, and so, unintentionally misrepresented by the one who didn't understand. That happens here and elsewhere a lot, more than we realize, sometimes.

Why shoot a man down and try to get him banned when you can't prove malicious intent? Even someone claiming to understand a point of discussion or doctrine doesn't make it so. It's just a claim, as much as saying someone is intentionally lying and misrepresenting the beliefs of others, regardless of the number of clarifications.

With all due respect, there are too many witnesses against the guilty party for all of them to just be misunderstanding him. One would think that the Administration would, at the very least, would admonish him to cease his spamming style of multiple posts in order to obscure the posts of others. That would be common courtesy and several have pointed this out to him. But hey, if you want one poster to drive a stake through the heart of this forum, then we certainly won't stand in the way. But he will be ignored.

[Sean]

In my own defense.

I dont call my opponents heretics, etc.(I stopped that silliness a time ago)

To me, that is what wrecks a forum, not strong debate.

A good scriptural spat must not get into the gutter, but stay tough and logical, with a little humor to lighten things from time to time.

I would never ask for banning of a contradicting opinion to me, but accept them with open arms into an argument or discussion.

I am seeking vindication of my Bible, not my beliefs.