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  #21  
Old 10-25-2016, 07:15 PM
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Re: What is the GOSPEL?

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Originally Posted by Jito463 View Post
You keep flipping this around backwards. No one I know preaches that you NEED to speak in tongues to receive the Holy Ghost. Only that when you DO receive the Holy Ghost, you WILL speak in tongues. It's not just a matter of semantics, it's a matter of importance. The Holy Ghost is what's important, the tongues are simply the outward, initial evidence.
Good response. I think that is the reason some people "seeking" the Holy Ghost "struggle." They want the experience - the tongues, but their hearts are probably not focused on seeking God (His Spirit). Can't blame them though, if that's how they were taught, i.e. to seek the sign.

Nothing wrong with tongues, in fact it is an important topic, being the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost. It's just that some people over-emphasize it, if not, give more attention to it than grace, faith and repentance.

If we want to talk about salvation, we don't go straight to a discussion of tongues. Some people get saved without them fully realizing what had happened to them. I mean, there are those who get convicted of their sins, repent and receive the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues without them knowing that there is such a thing as speaking in tongues. They just learned of it after experiencing it. Of course, they get water-baptized afterwards. Can't have one without the other. :-)
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  #22  
Old 10-25-2016, 07:54 PM
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Re: What is the GOSPEL?

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Originally Posted by MarkBelosa View Post
Good response. I think that is the reason some people "seeking" the Holy Ghost "struggle." They want the experience - the tongues, but their hearts are probably not focused on seeking God (His Spirit). Can't blame them though, if that's how they were taught, i.e. to seek the sign.

Nothing wrong with tongues, in fact it is an important topic, being the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost. It's just that some people over-emphasize it, if not, give more attention to it than grace, faith and repentance.

If we want to talk about salvation, we don't go straight to a discussion of tongues. Some people get saved without them fully realizing what had happened to them. I mean, there are those who get convicted of their sins, repent and receive the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues without them knowing that there is such a thing as speaking in tongues. They just learned of it after experiencing it. Of course, they get water-baptized afterwards. Can't have one without the other. :-)
I agree with you here, Bro. Mark! Tongues should not be sought, as they are a sign that follow. And you are so right, many people I have known have received the gift of tongues without even knowing what they are. And many people I know have faked the gift of tongues because they could not ever receive them.

The emphasis in evangelizing should be the gospel. It should not be on the "tongues"... as that is a sign that will follow a believer, i.e. Mark 16:16-17.

It was never demonstrated through Acts that unbelievers seek the gift of tongues, but they were preached "the gospel" which we have already demonstrated through scripture what that is - essentially the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, and signs will follow those that believe.
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  #23  
Old 10-25-2016, 08:01 PM
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Re: What is the GOSPEL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jito463 View Post
You keep flipping this around backwards. No one I know preaches that you NEED to speak in tongues to receive the Holy Ghost. Only that when you DO receive the Holy Ghost, you WILL speak in tongues. It's not just a matter of semantics, it's a matter of importance. The Holy Ghost is what's important, the tongues are simply the outward, initial evidence.
What then of a believer who has sought for years to receive the gift of the HG with the evidence of speaking in tongues, who has never received, and who resorts to speaking "fake" tongues, in order to get people off their back?

You see... this becomes a dangerous thing... this sign seeking.

I like Bro. Mark's way of looking at it. Seek the Lord Jesus, and not the sign.
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  #24  
Old 10-25-2016, 09:25 PM
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Re: What is the GOSPEL?

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Originally Posted by MarkBelosa View Post
Good response. I think that is the reason some people "seeking" the Holy Ghost "struggle." They want the experience - the tongues, but their hearts are probably not focused on seeking God (His Spirit). Can't blame them though, if that's how they were taught, i.e. to seek the sign.

Nothing wrong with tongues, in fact it is an important topic, being the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost. It's just that some people over-emphasize it, if not, give more attention to it than grace, faith and repentance.

If we want to talk about salvation, we don't go straight to a discussion of tongues. Some people get saved without them fully realizing what had happened to them. I mean, there are those who get convicted of their sins, repent and receive the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues without them knowing that there is such a thing as speaking in tongues. They just learned of it after experiencing it. Of course, they get water-baptized afterwards. Can't have one without the other. :-)
Reminds me of Simon the Sorcerer who offered the apostles money for the power to lay hands on people and they receive the Holy Ghost. The apostles rebuked Simon saying his gold perishes with him to think that the gift could be purchased with money. Some people could seek the experience for who knows the reason, but the heart is what God looks at. As mentioned about Simon in Acts chapter 9.

It is not tongues that we seek, but it is what we should expect. We should be careful as ministers to not make tongues our focus. Many people are pressured to speak in tongues and that should not be. We should simply preach the word of faith and allow God to do it. It is God who is the one who gives us the Spirit in the first place. By making tongues the objective, it can actually encourage people to fake it.
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  #25  
Old 10-25-2016, 09:40 PM
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Re: What is the GOSPEL?

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Originally Posted by Jito463 View Post
The Holy Ghost is what's important, the tongues are simply the outward, initial evidence.
Exactly.
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  #26  
Old 10-26-2016, 12:15 AM
Jito463 Jito463 is offline
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Re: What is the GOSPEL?

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Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord View Post
What then of a believer who has sought for years to receive the gift of the HG with the evidence of speaking in tongues, who has never received, and who resorts to speaking "fake" tongues, in order to get people off their back?

You see... this becomes a dangerous thing... this sign seeking.

I like Bro. Mark's way of looking at it. Seek the Lord Jesus, and not the sign.
You're right, and some do over emphasize the sign over the reason for it. Just because some people lose focus of what's important, doesn't mean that tongues as the initial evidence isn't true, it just means we need to be mindful that we keep our hearts on what really matters.

In any of my postings, have I ever suggested seeking after tongues? No, because I fervently believe that tongues simply will occur when one receives the baptism of the Holy Ghost for the first time.

Don't confuse cause with affect.

The Bible teaches us not to seek after signs, and this is true. It does not say, however, that we should ignore them or not be mindful of them, it just says not to seek them.
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  #27  
Old 10-26-2016, 01:18 AM
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Re: What is the GOSPEL?

There is a lot in this post, as it pertains to Holy Scripture that is right on, within context.

But I think the original question still hasn't been answered properly.

I think all that has been so far shared, as it pertains to Holy Scripture, are merely elements of the Gospel.

But as Godsdrummer pointed out, the Gospel is a message.

The message is more than all the quoted verses. Yes, it involves the death, burial, and resurrection of the Messiah. Yes, it involves the power of God, and yes, by it, people are saved.

But these are mere elements. To me, the actual message of the Gospel is this:

Matthew 26:28,

Quote:
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
The good message is that through the blood of our Lord Jesus, people can experience a remission of their sins.

If a lawyer showed up at your door and explained to you how you had a long lost uncle that you never knew, but who knew who you were, who had recently died, and had written you into his will, all of this would be fine and dandy, but still, only mere elements of why the lawyer has come to visit you.

The actual message of such a fiction is this:

Your uncle left you a sizable sum of money from his estate, to the tune of $10 million.

All of the those intricacies and necessities of the law and the will are an important part of the overall story. But the message is "You're rich!".

So with Christ and the Gospel. The death, burial, resurrection, power of God, salvation, and etc. are all important and part of the overall story. But the message is "You're forgiven!".

To me, that's the Gospel, or "Good Message".
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  #28  
Old 10-26-2016, 09:33 AM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: What is the GOSPEL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord View Post
What then of a believer who has sought for years to receive the gift of the HG with the evidence of speaking in tongues, who has never received, and who resorts to speaking "fake" tongues, in order to get people off their back?

You see... this becomes a dangerous thing... this sign seeking.

I like Bro. Mark's way of looking at it. Seek the Lord Jesus, and not the sign.
amen! when you do that, aren't you going to be speaking in tongues anyway, as someone has already said? just maybe with a different end in mind? i tell you, i look for speaking in tongues, as a sign in people. Or rather, i don't 'look for it' like 'require it,' but am alert for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by good samaritan View Post
It is not tongues that we seek, but it is what we should expect.
hey, have you ever had a new believer who evidenced that they just 'got it' right away--as sometimes happens--whose old peers would not testify that they now 'spoke in tongues'?
even if you would not have defined it like that?

Last edited by shazeep; 10-26-2016 at 09:42 AM.
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  #29  
Old 10-26-2016, 09:44 AM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: What is the GOSPEL?

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Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
There is a lot in this post, as it pertains to Holy Scripture that is right on, within context.

But I think the original question still hasn't been answered properly.

I think all that has been so far shared, as it pertains to Holy Scripture, are merely elements of the Gospel.

But as Godsdrummer pointed out, the Gospel is a message.

The message is more than all the quoted verses. Yes, it involves the death, burial, and resurrection of the Messiah. Yes, it involves the power of God, and yes, by it, people are saved.

But these are mere elements. To me, the actual message of the Gospel is this:

Matthew 26:28,



The good message is that through the blood of our Lord Jesus, people can experience a remission of their sins.

If a lawyer showed up at your door and explained to you how you had a long lost uncle that you never knew, but who knew who you were, who had recently died, and had written you into his will, all of this would be fine and dandy, but still, only mere elements of why the lawyer has come to visit you.

The actual message of such a fiction is this:

Your uncle left you a sizable sum of money from his estate, to the tune of $10 million.

All of the those intricacies and necessities of the law and the will are an important part of the overall story. But the message is "You're rich!".

So with Christ and the Gospel. The death, burial, resurrection, power of God, salvation, and etc. are all important and part of the overall story. But the message is "You're forgiven!".

To me, that's the Gospel, or "Good Message".
  #30  
Old 10-26-2016, 09:54 AM
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Re: What is the GOSPEL?

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Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
So with Christ and the Gospel. The death, burial, resurrection, power of God, salvation, and etc. are all important and part of the overall story. But the message is "You're forgiven!".

To me, that's the Gospel, or "Good Message".
I agree that is the Good message. But how that good message is related to individuals looks different and is a little more than just that you are forgiven. Rather more and two the point how and what is the relation to the kingdom of God.

In fact the Jews were not looking to forgiveness of sins as much as a king, and kingdom. After all their sins were forgiven through the sacrifice of the law, in a manner of speaking.

We cannot get away from the message both Christ instructed his disciples to proclaim and John proclaimed. The kingdom of God has come.

In Acts 2 Peter pointed out two facts, first that what they had received was what Joel had prophesied. Two that the Jesus that they had crucified God had made both Lord and Christ and sat on the throne of David, fulfilling the prophesy made by David of old. Hence we have the preaching of the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Try and get this next statement. These were the ones physically responsible for the crucifixion. When they ask "what must we do" it was in response to that fact. And it was to that fact they were commanded to repent.

Neither to the Samaritans nor the house of Cornelius was this direct command to repent preached rather simply Christ and his kingdom and belief in him. Simply put the Gospel was that Christ had died rose again and his Kingdom had come. And belief in that was entrance into his kingdom.
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