My Opinion

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by n david

This should be viewed as an insult to anyone - con or non. Unfortunately, this type of post is the norm for cons. They don't consider this kind of post an insult, though it is. They claim they're just posting "the truth." Nons are cast to hell, told they're backslidden, reprobate, on and on. None of that is considered an insult. No...it's "the truth." (As viewed by cons, not the Word)

So, are you saying we should never acknowledge if someone is headed for hell? What about if someone claims to be Holy Ghost filled, but lives in homosexuality? Or is addicted to porn? Or is lusting after another? Would it be an insult to say they're backslid and headed for hell? Or would that simply be the truth?

I'm not saying anyone is, just asking hypothetically. Now, obviously there is a proper way and a wrong way to say it, but just because some address the issues improperly (i.e. not from a spirit of meekness and love), does it make the statement itself wrong?

I'm just trying to understand what specifically you think we all should be objecting to (and I mean that sincerely, not facetiously). The statement itself, or the spirit in which you perceive it to be delivered? Or something else entirely that I'm not seeing?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Jito463

So, are you saying we should never acknowledge if someone is headed for hell? What about if someone claims to be Holy Ghost filled, but lives in homosexuality? Or is addicted to porn? Or is lusting after another? Would it be an insult to say they're backslid and headed for hell? Or would that simply be the truth?

I'm not saying anyone is, just asking hypothetically. Now, obviously there is a proper way and a wrong way to say it, but just because some address the issues improperly (i.e. not from a spirit of meekness and love), does it make the statement itself wrong?

I'm just trying to understand what specifically you think we all should be objecting to (and I mean that sincerely, not facetiously). The statement itself, or the spirit in which you perceive it to be delivered? Or something else entirely that I'm not seeing?

I'll answer, since I'm here posting tonight. ND may want to offer his own answer.

Yes there is a time we should acknowledge that someone is headed to hell, but this should be in objective matters, not subjective. The examples you provide (sexual sins) are examples that the Bible plainly warns those who do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God (Romans 1, 1 Corinthians 6, Galatians 5, Ephesians 5, 1 Timothy 1, Revelations 21 & 22). It would be cowardly, unloving, and deceiving to tell a homosexual, an adulterer, or a fornicator that they can continue right on in their lifestyle with no need of change and enter the Kingdom. The list in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 is quite objective. Another example is if someone is an unbeliever or a heathen or idolater (such as muslims, hindus, etc). These are all objective cases with clear scriptural direction demanding repentance or facing the judgment of God.

Whereas, matters of standards are quite subjective and culturally based. To claim a man is a false teacher because he doesn't preach that a man must be clean shaven or that a woman cannot trim her dead ends or wear ear rings is simply foolish. When we make issues in which the Bible is either silent on, or else very subdued on (such as different hair styles of the sexes) matters of eternal salvation and damnation we are way beyond the boundaries of scripture, and hence have no Biblical right to make a judgement. In such cases we ought not condemn.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Cracker Barrel

Right! The Bible calls that preaching.

It's what guys like u call foolishness.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

"For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."

Sometimes preaching his offensive that's when it's time to REPENT.

A real Holy Ghost filled Apostolic, loves that kind of preaching because it produces change in the right direction

For cryin out loud...

[n david]

Originally Posted by Jito463

So, are you saying we should never acknowledge if someone is headed for hell? What about if someone claims to be Holy Ghost filled, but lives in homosexuality? Or is addicted to porn? Or is lusting after another? Would it be an insult to say they're backslid and headed for hell? Or would that simply be the truth?

I'm not saying anyone is, just asking hypothetically. Now, obviously there is a proper way and a wrong way to say it, but just because some address the issues improperly (i.e. not from a spirit of meekness and love), does it make the statement itself wrong?

I'm just trying to understand what specifically you think we all should be objecting to (and I mean that sincerely, not facetiously). The statement itself, or the spirit in which you perceive it to be delivered? Or something else entirely that I'm not seeing?

No, I would agree there are certain times which, as you said, in meekness and love you tell the person the condition of their soul and what the Bible says their end could be.

Most of the time, not all, but most of the time actual sin is not the issue when cons tell nons they're going to hell. Most of the tine it's because the non has stopped preaching outward "holiness" standards. I find it incredible that David Bernard defends and allows for women to wear pants in India (because it's their culture) yet prohibits and condemns women in the US from doing the same.

So yes, tell a person they're lost and in danger of hell because of sin, but don't condemn a person to hell just because they don't believe in uc extra-biblical standards.

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by n david

No, I would agree there are certain times which, as you said, in meekness and love you tell the person the condition of their soul and what the Bible says their end could be.

Most of the time, not all, but most of the time actual sin is not the issue when cons tell nons they're going to hell. Most of the tine it's because the non has stopped preaching outward "holiness" standards. I find it incredible that David Bernard defends and allows for women to wear pants in India (because it's their culture) yet prohibits and condemns women in the US from doing the same.

So yes, tell a person they're lost and in danger of hell because of sin, but don't condemn a person to hell just because they don't believe in uc extra-biblical standards.

Thanks for clarifying. Your previous post wasn't completely clear to me.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Jito463

So, are you saying we should never acknowledge if someone is headed for hell? What about if someone claims to be Holy Ghost filled, but lives in homosexuality? Or is addicted to porn? Or is lusting after another? Would it be an insult to say they're backslid and headed for hell? Or would that simply be the truth?

I'm not saying anyone is, just asking hypothetically. Now, obviously there is a proper way and a wrong way to say it, but just because some address the issues improperly (i.e. not from a spirit of meekness and love), does it make the statement itself wrong?

I'm just trying to understand what specifically you think we all should be objecting to (and I mean that sincerely, not facetiously). The statement itself, or the spirit in which you perceive it to be delivered? Or something else entirely that I'm not seeing?

As a liberal I too would respond to this. First I would have to say, the scenario given is way out of proportion. For the fact that most of the time these are hidden sins, one does not know if someone is addicted to porn or lusting. Many times even homosexuality is hidden. And in most of these cases the sinner knows they are sinning.
Further it has been my experience over the years that the one that is crying out the loudest against a certain sin, usually is battling that very same sin.

Originally Posted by Jason B

I'll answer, since I'm here posting tonight. ND may want to offer his own answer.

Yes there is a time we should acknowledge that someone is headed to hell, but this should be in objective matters, not subjective. The examples you provide (sexual sins) are examples that the Bible plainly warns those who do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God (Romans 1, 1 Corinthians 6, Galatians 5, Ephesians 5, 1 Timothy 1, Revelations 21 & 22). It would be cowardly, unloving, and deceiving to tell a homosexual, an adulterer, or a fornicator that they can continue right on in their lifestyle with no need of change and enter the Kingdom. The list in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 is quite objective. Another example is if someone is an unbeliever or a heathen or idolater (such as muslims, hindus, etc). These are all objective cases with clear scriptural direction demanding repentance or facing the judgment of God.

Whereas, matters of standards are quite subjective and culturally based. To claim a man is a false teacher because he doesn't preach that a man must be clean shaven or that a woman cannot trim her dead ends or wear ear rings is simply foolish. When we make issues in which the Bible is either silent on, or else very subdued on (such as different hair styles of the sexes) matters of eternal salvation and damnation we are way beyond the boundaries of scripture, and hence have no Biblical right to make a judgement. In such cases we ought not condemn.

While I agree with your words, it seems that you are only one step across the line from ultra con. But that is ok the spirit you suggest is the way it should be.

[LOVE JESUS]

AMEN!!!
I, too, have seen the hateful words on this forum and they supposed to have the "Truth". The Holy Ghost that I have would speak to me and let me know I was not operating in love. Just because we aren't face to face with each other, it doesn't give us the right to be rude. Your article was so good and true. Words do hurt and our words should uplift and encourage and if needing correction, do it in LOVE and much prayer and not on a public forum. We can always private message someone. Thanks again.

Originally Posted by Sherri

I just want to say that we are all people and we all have feelings. I've been called everything in the book - Jezebel (many times), harlot, backslidden (by a close WPF family member on a public forum), worldly, etc. etc. etc. I've been told flat out that we are going to hell and that we are taking our church to hell.

I know who I am in Christ. I am a redeemed child of God. I am a blood bought Christian. I am a Holy Ghost filled, tongue talking, devil stomping, Believer. No one can take that from me.

However, when I am called names, it HURTS. It hurts badly. I can pretend it doesn't, but it does. I cannot imagine being called those kind of things at the age of 19.

God help us to act like Christians. The Bible still says that others will know we are Christians by our love. If non-Christians were ever to see the vile that comes across in forums like this, they would RUN as far away from Christianity as possible, and especially from the Apostolic church.

I think some of you have become so enamored by your own holiness, that you have forgotten who God is. You are not Him. Neither am I. Let God be God and let Him be Judge of us all!

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by Cracker Barrel

Yes
Yes
Amen.

I don't believe in women preachers though.

Well it's a good thing I'm not one then. 😁

[FlamingZword]

Well I am not UPCI, so I really don't know much of what is going on in this discussion.

But as an outsider, I kind of expected a true Christian denomination to be merciful with those who have left a denomination and wish them well on their way. Of course always keeping the door open for them in case they want to return.

After all did not Peter denied Jesus three times and yet Jesus received him back?
and not only Peter but also the other disciples left Jesus in his hour of most need, yet he took them back.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Well I am not UPCI, so I really don't know much of what is going on in this discussion.

Don't worry.

You are not alone.