Interesting Article on Same Sex Marriage

[Servant's <3]

I'm not saying you are mistaken but the idea that a church could lose tax exempt status for that reason is ludicrous. It defeats the entire mindset behind giving them tax exempt status to begin with.

Churches are not hate groups as much as certain groups love to vilify them (us). Unfortunately, alot of churches are unable to separate sin and sinner.

Personally, I think the church should welcome homosexuals. (Not condone). These people are suffering... whether they realize it or not.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Servant's <3

I'm not saying you are mistaken but the idea that a church could lose tax exempt status for that reason is ludicrous. It defeats the entire mindset behind giving them tax exempt status to begin with.

Here are a couple quotes from Justices Scalia and Roberts:

JUSTICE SCALIA: They are not constitutional requirements. That was the whole point of my question. If you let the States do it, you can make an exception. You can't do that once it is a constitutional proscription.

If it's a State law, you can make those exceptions. But if it's a constitutional requirement, I don't see how you can.
So basically, if the states make a law for/against SSM, the states could also make exceptions for religious institutions, clergy, etc. However, if the Supreme Court rules in favor of this, they essentially make gays a protected class and no exceptions can be made.


CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: Counsel, I'd like to follow up in a line of questioning that Justice Scalia started. We have a concession from your friend that clergy will not be required to perform samesex marriage, but there are going to be harder questions. Would a religious school that has married housing be required to afford such housing to samesex couples?

JUSTICE ALITO: Well, in the Bob Jones case, the Court held that a college was not entitled to tax exempt status if it opposed interracial marriage or interracial dating. So would the same apply to a university or a college if it opposed samesex marriage?

GENERAL VERRILLI: You know, I don't think I can answer that question without knowing more specifics, but it's certainly going to be an issue I don't deny that. I don't deny that, Justice Alito. It is it is going to be an issue.
Here the obama admin attorney admits that tax exemption is in the crosshairs if the Supreme Court rules in its favor and religious institutions refuse to bow to the administrations demands.

This would have seemed ludicrous a decade ago. Unfortunately with all the recent actions taken against christian-owned businesses, it's a certainty that should the Supreme Court rule in favor of SSM, it will be open season on the tax exempt status' of churches and religious institutions.

IMO, the focus on the "marriage" part of this is a smokescreen for the bigger issue. Either accommodate gays and house, hire, etc. or face loss of tax exemption status.

[Pressing-On]

This is a great article.

Why Americans Are Abandoning Religion

So why the massive drop in religious affiliation? The New York Times would have Americans believe that religion has stumbled because of its involvement in politics:

The report does not offer an explanation for the decline of the Christian population, but the low levels of Christian affiliation among the young, well educated and affluent are consistent with prevailing theories for the rise of the unaffiliated, like the politicization of religion by American conservatives.

This is precisely backwards. American conservatives did not politicize religion. American leftists did. That’s why The New York Times sees fit to run shocked headlines every time Pope Francis reiterates that the Catholic Church remains against same-sex marriage, as has been its position since the time of Jesus. The Church didn’t change, but the left has politicized issues, like marriage and same-sex marriage, upon which there was once unanimity, and pretended that only religious bigotry could justify any position different than their own. Religious Americans didn’t start speaking out about abortion because American conservatives hijacked religion. They started speaking out about abortion because American leftists hijacked politics and used those politics to assault religion.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ning-religion/

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by n david

Here are a couple quotes from Justices Scalia and Roberts:

JUSTICE SCALIA: They are not constitutional requirements. That was the whole point of my question. If you let the States do it, you can make an exception. You can't do that once it is a constitutional proscription.

If it's a State law, you can make those exceptions. But if it's a constitutional requirement, I don't see how you can.
So basically, if the states make a law for/against SSM, the states could also make exceptions for religious institutions, clergy, etc. However, if the Supreme Court rules in favor of this, they essentially make gays a protected class and no exceptions can be made.


CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: Counsel, I'd like to follow up in a line of questioning that Justice Scalia started. We have a concession from your friend that clergy will not be required to perform samesex marriage, but there are going to be harder questions. Would a religious school that has married housing be required to afford such housing to samesex couples?

JUSTICE ALITO: Well, in the Bob Jones case, the Court held that a college was not entitled to tax exempt status if it opposed interracial marriage or interracial dating. So would the same apply to a university or a college if it opposed samesex marriage?

GENERAL VERRILLI: You know, I don't think I can answer that question without knowing more specifics, but it's certainly going to be an issue I don't deny that. I don't deny that, Justice Alito. It is it is going to be an issue.
Here the obama admin attorney admits that tax exemption is in the crosshairs if the Supreme Court rules in its favor and religious institutions refuse to bow to the administrations demands.

This would have seemed ludicrous a decade ago. Unfortunately with all the recent actions taken against christian-owned businesses, it's a certainty that should the Supreme Court rule in favor of SSM, it will be open season on the tax exempt status' of churches and religious institutions.

IMO, the focus on the "marriage" part of this is a smokescreen for the bigger issue. Either accommodate gays and house, hire, etc. or face loss of tax exemption status.

Spot on, David!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

IMO, the "marriage" aspect of this issue is going to be the least of Pastor's worries. From the questions posed by a couple Justices, the real issue will be that religious institutions and churches will be forced to accommodate, hire, house, etc, or else be in danger of losing tax exemption.

Maybe they should have never married the state to begin with.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Maybe they should have never married the state to begin with.

I don't disagree with you. From what I've read, tax exemption was something adopted from English law and the precedent goes all the way back to Constantine.

[Esaias]

Churches are automatically exempt before they get "exemption". When people form a non profit corporation called XYZ Church, Inc. they must then get the 501(c)3 exemption for that non profit corp. THAT is what is at stake. If churches however would just be churches, with no incorporation, there would be no problem, as there is no corporate "person" to be sued at law. A voluntary association of individuals is not a legal entity unless it incorporates as a legal entity distinct from the members. This is the trap most "churches" have fallen into. By incorporating they become SLAVES OF THE STATE, since a corporation is legally created by an act of government upon petition by individuals. Read that again carefully...

But none of this relevant AT ALL. God has outlawed sodomy, regardless of what pretended "legislation" man comes up with. The church (not the non profit corp...) is not subject to Caesar in anything pertaining to God. There is no "law" recognized by God that is contrary to His Law. Sin can NEVER be right, or "lawful", by definition.

Anyone worrying about "what are we gonna do?" needs to figure who they are going to serve.

One day just being a Christian may be outlawed. What then?

Our current government is Antichrist. So don't be surprised they do everything they can to squeeze Christians into submission or oblivion.

We must obey God rather than men.

[ILG]

[ILG]

The above video is the man who made the resolution to declassify homosexuality as a mental illness with the stipulation that scientific research would be done on it. He says this science was never done. He is not opposed to homosexual marriage but says it took a very political bent and basically left off science. Very interesting.

[Aquila]

Churches shouldn't incorporate with the government. Ministers shouldn't seek a license with the government. Christian couples shouldn't seek to license their marriages with the government.

It's looking more and more like the Quakers were right all along.