For God to be love, He has to be a Trinity!?!

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Are there not enough apostolic men of God that don't have to spin the truth?

A lot of the oneness, apostolic type ministries tend to focus more on the legalistic nature of things, rather than spending time dealing with heart issues, at least that was my experience growing up. We heard far more teaching on how to dress, act, look, etc., than we ever did on dealing with heart issues. We were taught to judge, instead of love. We were taught to hate others who didn't look like us, instead of love them.... and so on. That is not to say that there is not ministry out there that teaches, lives, and practices love... but... for the most part many of them major on the judgment, and there is very minor teaching on love... just my experience.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

That is wonderful to hear. I've not read his writings or heard him speak, but I believe what you say in that he has an amazing understanding of God, and while he is wrong on this spectrum of the doctrine, you can't just throw the baby out with the bathwater because he doesn't understand the oneness of God ... yet. I believe the Lord leads and guides into all truth, and perhaps, he has just yet to meet someone to lead him into the fullness of the truth of understanding the oneness of God.

Boyd started off following Christ as a Oneness Pentecostal. He even wrote a book against our doctrines, Oneness Pentecostals and the Trinity. I have the book and started reading it but alot of what he says is what I have already heard (thought and prayed about) from trinitarians on forums. http://www.amazon.com/Oneness-Pentec...ords=greg+boyd

He talks about his conversion and leaving a UPC church. http://vimeo.com/65267407

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Are there not enough apostolic men of God that don't have to spin the truth?

Just saying that there are others from whom we can learn a thing or two who are not apostolic oneness pentecostals. And any pride one may have from the "rightness" of a doctrine they hold to and the superiority that comes from that pride is not from God.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

A lot of the oneness, apostolic type ministries tend to focus more on the legalistic nature of things, rather than spending time dealing with heart issues, at least that was my experience growing up. We heard far more teaching on how to dress, act, look, etc., than we ever did on dealing with heart issues. We were taught to judge, instead of love. We were taught to hate others who didn't look like us, instead of love them.... and so on. That is not to say that there is not ministry out there that teaches, lives, and practices love... but... for the most part many of them major on the judgment, and there is very minor teaching on love... just my experience.

I didn't become a Christian until I was 23 y/o. My first pastor in a UPC fellowship did not preach or teach on the typical holiness standards of the UPC (which amount to the exterior and have nothing to do with the heart for some folks). The second UPC fellowship I attended when we moved back to the States was in Maryland...very legalistic. The UPC pastor I have now is probably considered a liberal to other UPC ministers. The teachings I heard over the years have run the gammit and I respect and love those who have guided me along the way but I've never heard teaching on love and judgment the way it is taught by Boyd.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Boyd started off following Christ as a Oneness Pentecostal. He even wrote a book against our doctrines, Oneness Pentecostals and the Trinity. I have the book and started reading it but alot of what he says is what I have already heard (thought and prayed about) from trinitarians on forums. http://www.amazon.com/Oneness-Pentec...ords=greg+boyd

He talks about his conversion and leaving a UPC church. http://vimeo.com/65267407

Really... well that is something ... to leave oneness and believe in the trinity. Maybe the pendulum has just swung really big, and maybe it will settle back down before long. I just don't know how one can believe that God is actually three separate and distinct persons or wills. While there are things about the way God has chosen to express himself to us that we may not understand, I think it is dangerous ground to believe that God is actually three separate and distinct beings coexisting.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I didn't become a Christian until I was 23 y/o. My first pastor in a UPC fellowship did not preach or teach on the typical holiness standards of the UPC (which amount to the exterior and have nothing to do with the heart for some folks). The second UPC fellowship I attended when we moved back to the States was in Maryland...very legalistic. The UPC pastor I have now is probably considered a liberal to other UPC ministers. The teachings I heard over the years have run the gammit and I respect and love those who have guided me along the way but I've never heard teaching on love and judgment the way it is taught by Boyd.

You are right - certainly not "all" of those in apostolic/pentecostal churches are focused on legalism, and that seems to be changing more and more as time passes. It is wonderful to know that people realize that the spirit should be our guide based on principles of the word of God. We are all on a journey of truth, and I agree that we can find more deeper teaching sometimes in unlikely places, having to spit out the bones at times, but applying what we can that lines up with the principles of the word of God.

[Michael The Disciple]

What do you mean when you say love and JUDGMENT? The only thing that comes to mind with Greg Boyd and judgment is that he like myself believes in the teaching of ANNIHILATION OF THE WICKED.

For that I will give him credit. I have always appreciated truth wherever it comes from. As far as the preaching of temporal judgment as in chastisment I have heard very little of that taught over the years by anyone.

[shag]

Originally Posted by Jito463

I wouldn't so much say overemphasized, as much as misunderstood. The church is His bride, however we are not. We are the sons and daughters, which the church - as His bride - has "birthed".

Lay some scripture on me for that.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by shag

Lay some scripture on me for that.

Yeah are you saying WE are not the Church? Who is?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

What do you mean when you say love and JUDGMENT? The only thing that comes to mind with Greg Boyd and judgment is that he like myself believes in the teaching of ANNIHILATION OF THE WICKED.

For that I will give him credit. I have always appreciated truth wherever it comes from. As far as the preaching of temporal judgment as in chastisment I have heard very little of that taught over the years by anyone.

NOT ETERNAL JUDGEMENT!

Here is part of a blog post that explains what I mean:

"A few years ago, I committed to blessing all people at all times. (See yesterday’s post for more about this.) The first thing I noticed was how many “non-blessing” thoughts I had about people. I wasn’t very aware of it before, but my brain often created a running commentary on the people I observed or interacted with. I always saw myself as an open-minded, non-judgmental person. But I discovered that my brain was ceaselessly popping up opinions on everything from how people drove to what they looked like to how they parented to what I thought they believed, etc… While many of these automatic sub-conscious opinions of people were not negative, few were perfectly aligned with God’s opinion of them, as expressed on Calvary.
What I’ve come to understand is that we fallen humans are addicted to judgment. It’s one of the primary ways we feed ourselves with idolatrous worth, significance and security. We get LIFE from vainly imagining we have a judge’s right to pass private verdicts on people. We get LIFE noticing that, however pathetic we may be, at least we’re not like this person or that person. As I’ve argued in my book Repenting of Religion, this is one of the primary ways we eat of the forbidden tree, the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (Gen. 2). Instead of trusting God for LIFE, we try to steal LIFE from the forbidden tree, pretending we are god, knowing good and evil.
What I’ve also come to understand is that every one of these judgments keeps us from doing the one thing we were created to do in relation to other humans: namely, love them the way God loves us. Judgment is the antithesis of self-sacrificial love. We simply can’t be ascribing unsurpassable worth to others when we’re ascribing idolatrous worth to ourselves by detracting worth from others. This is undoubtedly why eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is depicted as the “original sin” of the Bible, and why the New Testament is so emphatic in commanding Jesus-disciples not to judge.
Our job as Kingdom people is to simply bless people, even our worst enemies, and leave all judgment up to God."
- See more at: http://reknew.org/2014/07/revolting-....joZWndql.dpuf