Ferguson PD and Race - MO AG's 2013 Report

[n david]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Police use those grenades ALL the time.

Not to the extent they've been using them the past few years.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Cops have been using CGs for years guys. They have been getting free armored vehicles from the feds for years.

They even get the kind that are protected against mines. I listened to a News report where a SWAT guy was talking about it and was really glad they get these things.

Look at what SWAT used to have -- a delivery-truck looking vehicle. It had bullet proof windows and a thicker shell. It was nowhere near the military grade vehicle they're using now, complete with a gun turret on top.

It used to be the SWAT was used solely for extreme circumstances. Now it's being used for car repo's and other warrant issues. What's the need for a gun turret? Protection from mines? Who's using mines?

Aren't the police here to PROTECT and SERVE? These guys are thugs with a badge. We're citizens with constitutional rights, not enemy combatants.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The PD chief said they were being shot at numerous times. I can see armored vehicles.

I can maybe even see needing to disperse the crowd

I don't know about other areas, but the video of these "police" firing tear gas and rubber bullets at the news crew is chilling. Fortunately there was another news crew on a different street which saw and recorded the incident. The story is even more chilling. That news crew had spoken with the "police" before being fired on. The "police" there knew it was a news crew.

Check out the video and please point out where any protestors are. Please show where the news crew posed a threat to these "police." After the police fired on this crew and they were running away, the camera pulls out for a wider shot and it's an empty street where the crew is. They were behind the police line as they were told.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by n david

Not to the extent they've been using them the past few years.

I think so. I can remember very far back reading about flash/bangs being used by police

Look at what SWAT used to have -- a delivery-truck looking vehicle. It had bullet proof windows and a thicker shell. It was nowhere near the military grade vehicle they're using now, complete with a gun turret on top.

I live near LA. Im used to seeing on the News Swat coming in with armored vehicles.. They've been using Military armored vehicles for years with a battering ram attached to the front.

A gun turret might be nice to have but I don't see the point unless it's a fully automatic weapon and I don't believe Police should have those

It used to be the SWAT was used solely for extreme circumstances. Now it's being used for car repo's and other warrant issues. What's the need for a gun turret? Protection from mines? Who's using mines?

Yes I believe SWAT is being over used. I don't think they need protection from Mines. Im sure they got the vehicle because of the armor and size. It's Height would also make it perfect for going on rough terrain

Aren't the police here to PROTECT and SERVE?

Yes

These guys are thugs with a badge.

Not all COPs are bad

We're citizens with constitutional rights, not enemy combatants.

Correct

I don't know about other areas, but the video of these "police" firing tear gas and rubber bullets at the news crew is chilling.

Well I wasn't there and the News often reports one side. But I wasn't ever addressing at any time what happened with a news crew

Fortunately there was another news crew on a different street which saw and recorded the incident. The story is even more chilling. That news crew had spoken with the "police" before being fired on. The "police" there knew it was a news crew.

Im sure they knew it was a news crew

Check out the video and please point out where any protestors are.

Why are you addressing me? I never said anything about a news crew

Please show where the news crew posed a threat to these "police." After the police fired on this crew and they were running away, the camera pulls out for a wider shot and it's an empty street where the crew is. They were behind the police line as they were told.

See above. Im not defending the police. The only thing I have heard with regards to the Protest crowd..NOT the news crew, is there were multiple shots fired

[good samaritan]

I don't know at all if the police are handling it good or not.(the media is unreliable.) I know that it looked like a war zone with all the tear gas, but now that PD has pulled away and the rioters are just partying in the streets. One reporter said he could smell pot and alcohol while people stood in the streets and stood on top of cars. I guess all that is o.k. as long as the people aren't looting or vandalizing anything.(sarcasm)

I think the situation has been extreme and the local law enforcement has probably tried there best to handle it right. I wonder if we would even know about this story if the officer would have been the one killed.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I don't know at all if the police are handling it good or not.(the media is unreliable.) I know that it looked like a war zone with all the tear gas, but now that PD has pulled away and the rioters are just partying in the streets. One reporter said he could smell pot and alcohol while people stood in the streets and stood on top of cars. I guess all that is o.k. as long as the people aren't looting or vandalizing anything.(sarcasm)

I think the situation has been extreme and the local law enforcement has probably tried there best to handle it right. I wonder if we would even know about this story if the officer would have been the one killed.

I have no problem with LEOs having free MRAPs if that is what they can get but having them mounted at the turret with a gun is nuts..

It was a no win situation. The local PD should have asked for state help to handle the protests since they were already angry at them

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I have no problem with LEOs having free MRAPs if that is what they can get but having them mounted at the turret with a gun is nuts..

It was a no win situation. The local PD should have asked for state help to handle the protests since they were already angry at them

Romans 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God:and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

It doesn't worry me any about what kind of guns my local PD has access to. I don't plan on being involved in anything illegal. If my allegiance to Jesus Christ puts me at odds with the government one day, so be it. I am awaiting my reward. God will take care of that.

PS Have you see some of the rifles that Walmart carries? It is a lot more than deer rifles. the times are getting perilous

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Romans 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God:and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

It doesn't worry me any about what kind of guns my local PD has access to. I don't plan on being involved in anything illegal. If my allegiance to Jesus Christ puts me at odds with the government one day, so be it. I am awaiting my reward. God will take care of that.

PS Have you see some of the rifles that Walmart carries? It is a lot more than deer rifles. the times are getting perilous

the Police have been known to break into a house of people who were innocent as well as kill people who are innocent.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

the Police have been known to break into a house of people who were innocent as well as kill people who are innocent.

True, but that is probably by far more the exception than the rule. Everyone makes mistakes Even police, but if we are innocent we don't have to lose no sleep at night worrying about it.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

True, but that is probably by far more the exception than the rule. Everyone makes mistakes Even police, but if we are innocent we don't have to lose no sleep at night worrying about it.

It happens often and they do it brazenly with brutal force...which is easy to do when you are driving tanks and armed with grenade launchers

[obriencp]

Originally Posted by n david

Where did these cops get these weapons? The concussion grenades, the MRAP? The Feds have been selling off equipment like crazy, some claim in an effort to militarize the local police. For what, though?

...Then Congress needs to pass a bill preventing the selling of military equipment to local LEA's...

The DoD regularly buys too much equipment because of politicians trying to keep factories open (Lima, OH for example). If the DoD can't liquidate organically, then the other option is to sell off to foreign countries. Neither option is ideal, but I'd rather see our equipment in the hands of the local PD than in SWA.

[bishoph]

While I cannot at this time say that the police officer was justified in his actions......(I don't believe anyone can say one way or the other, until more details are released) However, it is clear that there are HUGE discrepancies between the "eyewitness" friend and the truth. For example:

1. The friend says that he and Michael Brown were crossing the street walking in the middle of the road and were j walking.....when according to Johnson (the friend) the officer pulled up beside them and told them to "get the f--- on the sidewalk" they responded by telling him they were almost at their destination and the officer began driving away. Taking this to mean he was alright with them continuing in the street, they continued their present course. Suddenly the officer placed his truck in reverse squealing the tires and backed up almost hitting them. According to the "eyewitness/friend" the officer asked them what they had said and attempted to open his door....they were standing so close that the officer hit Brown with his door and was not able to open his door.

Then the officer sitting in his vehicle reached up and grabbed the 6' 4" Brown by the neck and attempted to pull him into the patrol car and it was like a "tug of war" the officer trying to pull him in and Brown trying to get away.

How long would the officer's arms have to be and how much strength would he have top exert to reach up from a seated position and grab a 6' 4" 296lb guy around the neck and pull him down....Really??

2. Then a shot is fired from inside the car, Brown is hit, and starts to run away....according to his friend....the officer shoots him in the back, and he then turns around with his hands in the air and the officer just shoots him several times murdering him when he was peacefully surrendering.

However, other eyewitness accounts caught on tape tell a drastically different tale.....how that Brown after apparently being shot and walking/running away, suddenly turns and rushes at the officer which is when he fired the rest of the shots.

I personally think there is a lot more to this that we don't know yet.....and I am NOT defending the police......I am just saying the closest "eyewitness" account is extremely flawed/biased. IMO