Oneness Pentecostals Are Right on Baptism

[Sean]

[QUOTE=Originalist;1320467]I understand your stance because you are one of the few Apostolics I've met that believes n baptismal regeneration. I do not. Peter declared in Acts 2:38 to repent and be baptized...in order that your sins may be forgiven. Sean, do repentance and baptism have the ability to forgive sins? Are they self aware beings?[/QUOTE]






Of course not.

Repentance and baptism are simply our requirements to receive forgiveness and remission of sins bro.

The very acts themselves cause a response from God towards us for salvation.


Brother, dont you think it is kinda strange, you are working this hard to make a verse like the one we are talking about mean something else? Just think about this for a minute. Are there alterior motives, bias? It is obviously "bucking" your theology. It may be part of a root system of faulty beliefs. I have noticed that stuff on me in the past and had to deal with it. There have been some big weeds in my theology in the past, that when I noticed a root, I found it attached to a weed and pulled out the whole thing.


I am not too proud to admit this either. I have recently "busted" some folks on clear misinterpretations on other threads, but they are soooo proud, they would not ever admit that they misquoted something, they just "stick to their story". Worried that their entire concept could "domino" down I guess.

[Originalist]

[QUOTE=Sean;1320502]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I understand your stance because you are one of the few Apostolics I've met that believes n baptismal regeneration. I do not. Peter declared in Acts 2:38 to repent and be baptized...in order that your sins may be forgiven. Sean, do repentance and baptism have the ability to forgive sins? Are they self aware beings?[/QUOTE]






Of course not.

Repentance and baptism are simply our requirements to receive forgiveness and remission of sins bro.

The very acts themselves cause a response from God towards us for salvation.


Brother, dont you think it is kinda strange, you are working this hard to make a verse like the one we are talking about mean something else? Just think about this for a minute. Are there alterior motives, bias? It is obviously "bucking" your theology. It may be part of a root system of faulty beliefs. I have noticed that stuff on me in the past and had to deal with it. There have been some big weeds in my theology in the past, that when I noticed a root, I found it attached to a weed and pulled out the whole thing.

Sean I do not know how old you are or how long you've had the Holy Ghost. I am 48 and have had the Holy Ghost since 1981. I have lived for God since that time. Certainly I know what it is like to have God stand your beliefs on their head. I was once licensed with the AoG. In 1993 I joined the UPCI. That should tell you something. But just because I joined the Apostolics does not mean I've arrived and can't keep learning. but this close mindedness to any new truth of scripture is a problem in our movement. I sense this in you now, respectfully. You've been led to believe that the sins are remitted BY baptism. I feel the scriptures teach they are remitted IN repentance and baptism BY God for Christ's sake. You've been led to believe that orally invoking the name of Jesus in baptism somehow magically takes away sins. I feel the scripture teaches that baptism is a response to the message preached by the Apostles concerning the risen and glorified Christ and is an act of submission to that message and the One preached. When we submit to him in baptism, HE forgives us. There is not some salvation power to wash sin flowing from the baptizers lips , into the water that somehow magically cures your sin ailment. That's what you seem to believe.

[Sean]

[QUOTE=Originalist;1320504]

Originally Posted by Sean

Sean I do not know how old you are or how long you've had the Holy Ghost. I am 48 and have had the Holy Ghost since 1981. I have lived for God since that time. Certainly I know what it is like to have God stand your beliefs on their head. I was once licensed with the AoG. In 1993 I joined the UPCI. That should tell you something. But just because I joined the Apostolics does not mean I've arrived and can't keep learning. but this close mindedness to any new truth of scripture is a problem in our movement. I sense this in you now, respectfully. You've been led to believe that the sins are remitted BY baptism. I feel the scriptures teach they are remitted IN repentance and baptism BY God for Christ's sake. You've been led to believe that orally invoking the name of Jesus in baptism somehow magically takes away sins. I feel the scripture teaches that baptism is a response to the message preached by the Apostles concerning the risen and glorified Christ and is an act of submission to that message and the One preached. When we submit to him in baptism, HE forgives us. There is not some salvation power to wash sin flowing from the baptizers lips , into the water that somehow magically cures your sin ailment. That's what you seem to believe.

Brother, right here shows your bias, the name that is among every name(Jesus) is not "magic".(that is a derision of the greatest name ever spoken to mankind) I have heard debates when the trinitarians commonly called the name of Jesus during baptism, our little "magical" formula.

Could this statement have its roots in you A of G days?

They are the ones that say this.



BTW, I am 52 and was saved in 1979. I was debating trinitarians within 6 months...LOL

[Originalist]

[QUOTE=Sean;1320506]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Brother, right here shows your bias, the name that is among every name(Jesus) is not "magic".(that is a derision of the greatest name ever spoken to mankind) I have heard debates when the trinitarians commonly called the name of Jesus during baptism, our little "magical" formula.

Could this statement have its roots in you A of G days?

They are the ones that say this.





BTW, I am 52 and was saved in 1979. I was debating trinitarians within 6 months...LOL

No this debate has roots in my UPCI days from being around so many Apostolics now for 21 years. I see people having baptism preached to them as the gospel in many cases instead of having Christ preached to them. Hey I'm a total outcast in many circles for believing baptism is a pre-new birth experience. I will not compromise that. But instead of preaching baptism as the gospel, let's preach what the apostles preached. I gave you allot of scripture as to what they preached. Somehow you thought the fact that I posted so many supporting verses actually weakened my argument. I've witnessed many Bible studies over the years for people wanting baptism that dealt with ONE thing...that being..."what should the baptizer invoke over you?". Nothing about the resurrection, nothing about the glorification of Christ and his authority to forgive sins. Baptism is just a "step" instead of a response to being smitten with conviction for the need to bow to the glorified Christ.This method subtly places the converts faith in the baptism itself instead of the Christ of the baptism.

[Sean]

I know brother, I, have only seen the phrase "magic' referring to the name of Jesus, come from trinitarians arguing against us and trying to "predudice" the audience. When Oscar Hill tried that on Marvin Hicks, hill was publicly destroyed by Hicks on that statement.

It just "triggered" my response, the way I did to get to the root of the statement. I have never in my life ever heard a oneness believer use that term the way you just did. I was "taken back" by that from you.

I was just trying to get you to eliminate it from your vocabulary, old habits die hard...LOL

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Sean

I know brother, I, have only seen the phrase "magic' referring to the name of Jesus, come from trinitarians arguing against us and trying to "predudice" the audience. When Oscar Hill tried that on Marvin Hicks, hill was publicly destroyed by Hicks on that statement.

It just "triggered" my response, the way I did to get to the root of the statement. I have never in my life ever heard a oneness believer use that term the way you just did. I was "taken back" by that from you.

I was just trying to get you to eliminate it from your vocabulary, old habits die hard...LOL

Point taken. Sometimes I think when debating Trinitarians on baptism we should focus first on explaining scripturally how it is a pre-salvation experience and not just some "post salvation act of worship".

[Sean]

Amen, you know bro., as a side note, I am actually getting fellowship from our discussions, and for that matter, all of the debates and discussions we all deal with. I was thinking, if I started going back to church and got busy in the work of God, I would likely fall off the radar here. This has been my "crutch", during these times. This AFF site has been a blessing to me, not just challenging my beliefs, but for the most part, the interaction with my fellow saints. (that dont exactly see it my way). I have had to but my prejudices aside and call anyone baptized in Jesus' name my brother, regardless of their point of view.
It has enhanced my perspective of the saints immensely.....

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Sean

Amen, you know bro., as a side note, I am actually getting fellowship from our discussions, and for that matter, all of the debates and discussions we all deal with. I was thinking, if I started going back to church and got busy in the work of God, I would likely fall off the radar here. This has been my "crutch", during these times. This AFF site has been a blessing to me, not just challenging my beliefs, but for the most part, the interaction with my fellow saints. (that dont exactly see it my way). I have had to but my prejudices aside and call anyone baptized in Jesus' name my brother, regardless of their point of view.
It has enhanced my perspective of the saints immensely.....

I am glad we can have the attitude you mentioned above. It's a mark of spiritual maturity IMO.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I agree with Oneness Pentecostals:

The Oneness of God, Jesus Only.

Acts 2:38 is the full plan of salvation.

Me, too.