Back with some new perspective

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by n david

You should get more popcorn, and grab a seat on the too...

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by n david

Your Pastor was good with standards until "well educated people" show up, then changes it because he suddenly had a revelation that it's not the truth? Ok.

I think you're missing the point in here. First off you didn't highlight the "honest" part...lol

The point is that these new folks did not have a background in holiness semantics per se. So, the Pastor had to look for BIBLICAL SUPPORT for whatever standards he had preaching.

I don't know how many holiness churches you've been a part of, but when it comes to standards, it's mostly just said from the pulpit without any or much scriptural backing. It ends up being the Pastor said it and that's it.

For people who grew up in a holiness setting where you can't question a Pastor's teaching, these standards are easily believed as truth. (And breaking them means going to hell.)

However, if you're gonna preach these standards to new people who really want to believe the BIBLE ONLY, then you'd have to show them from the BIBLE scriptural support for these standards...and that's where the Pastor realized those supposed standards were not in the bible all along.

Hence, the statement:

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

"In this He realized that he would be presenting these teachings to honest, well educated people who were seeing the Word of God through eyes and hearts not previously influenced by the 'holiness' culture that our church had, compliments of the denomination to which we belonged

Originally Posted by n david

1) How long has your Pastor been a Pastor? 2) It took these "well educated people" to finally get your Pastor to study this himself and find out he didn't believe what he'd been preaching for however long he's been preaching?!?


Spare the drama.

It'll play well here on AFF and you'll get a bunch of positive, affirming posts congratulating your newfound beliefs - as evidenced by the posts already.

What would have happened if those "well educated people" hadn't shown up and your church was comprised of just a bunch of ignert folk!? Good thing those degrees helped influence your Pastor! Just imagine what he can change if there's money with those "well educated people."

You're totally missing the context of this post big time. This church according to the poster had not been much active in evangelizing those outside their church. In an effort to do using honest biblical approach, the scale began to fall off the pastor's eyes.

Maybe you can blame the Pastor for preaching the standards all these years without him looking for scriptural support, but at least give him credit for being honest after finding out and not just signing the affirmation docs as some do even though they do not believe it's biblical.

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

I think you're missing the point in here. First off you didn't highlight the "honest" part...lol

The point is that these new folks did not have a background in holiness semantics per se. So, the Pastor had to look for BIBLICAL SUPPORT for whatever standards he had preaching.

I don't know how many holiness churches you've been a part of, but when it comes to standards, it's mostly just said from the pulpit without any or much scriptural backing. It ends up being the Pastor said it and that's it.

For people who grew up in a holiness setting where you can't question a Pastor's teaching, these standards are easily believed as truth. (And breaking them means going to hell.)

However, if you're gonna preach these standards to new people who really want to believe the BIBLE ONLY, then you'd have to show them from the BIBLE scriptural support for these standards...and that's where the Pastor realized those supposed standards were not in the bible all along.

Hence, the statement:




You're totally missing the context of this post big time. This church according to the poster had not been much active in evangelizing those outside their church. In an effort to do using honest biblical approach, the scale began to fall off the pastor's eyes.

Maybe you can blame the Pastor for preaching the standards all these years without him looking for scriptural support, but at least give him credit for being honest after finding out and not just signing the affirmation docs as some do even though they do not believe it's biblical.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

He explained that the Bible teaches principles and relationship, not rules and regulations, and that it is the responsibility of the ministry to teach the principles and equip the saints to properly apply those principles AS they grow in their relationship with Jesus. It is NOT the duty of the ministry to make rules.

What a wonderful revelation this is! And, most OP pastors don't want to recognize this, because they enjoy the "control" all their man-made various and sundry laws give them. If Biblical principles were taught, along with proper authority - God-Christ-husband-wife-family.... the principles of holiness would be in their proper place.

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

And meanwhile, I had cautiously began listening to my husband again as he talked about how much license the holiness movement had taken and how they relied heavily on the faulty premise that New Testament ministry took the place of, and thus had the authority of, the Old Testament priesthood, and by extension had an obligation to judge everything and make rules to cover all facets of life.

Right. The OT priesthood and all its authority was abolished in the death of Christ, and now Christ is the law for us. And the law and its commandments are summed up in loving God, and loving one another.

The people who don't want to see this, don't want to give up their control and authority just like the Pharisees. They enjoy the laws, because it makes them appear more spiritual. However, the true LAW has appeared, and it is Jesus Christ, must to the dismay of the *Pharisees* who want to hold onto the man-made do's and don'ts.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

??

[n david]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

I think you're missing the point in here. First off you didn't highlight the "honest" part...lol

So the other members are liars? Awesome, the church was comprised of liars and idiots before these honest, well educated people started coming! I'm mostly joking...

Why the need to identify these people as "well educated." There have been several posts here on AFF and other forums that either come out and say it or imply that Pastors only preach standards to idiots and people who are uneducated.

Originally Posted by TGBTG

The point is that these new folks did not have a background in holiness semantics per se. So, the Pastor had to look for BIBLICAL SUPPORT for whatever standards he had preaching.

After how long is he finally looking for Biblical support for his message? And whether you like it or not, it is what it is. It took these "honest, well educated people" coming to the church before he started looking for Biblical support. That's really sad.

Originally Posted by TGBTG

However, if you're gonna preach these standards to new people who really want to believe the BIBLE ONLY, then you'd have to show them from the BIBLE scriptural support for these standards...and that's where the Pastor realized those supposed standards were not in the bible all along.

I understand how to disciple new converts, but thanks for the refresher course!

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Maybe you can blame the Pastor for preaching the standards all these years without him looking for scriptural support, but at least give him credit for being honest after finding out and not just signing the affirmation docs as some do even though they do not believe it's biblical.

Give the Pastor credit for finally opening the Bible to study what's been there all the time he's been Pastoring, but only recently became interested in because "well educated people" started coming to the church?

If there was a blue ribbon smiley, I'd post it.

Now that the well educated people have helped open the Pastor's eyes on standards, let's see what would happen if some rich people started attending! Oh the revelations!

FTR - I don't believe in outward standards. I never did while growing up in a UPC church my dad Pastored.

[Roxanne Murphy]

n.david, I must say, from what you have posted so far on this thread, you seem to exhibit the less desirable character traits of some (thankfully not all) preachers' kids I have known during my years in the UPC: rude, sarcastic, and and substandard reading and comprehension skills compensated for by insinuation and false accusation. But please, continue with your comments: I have some well deserved reaping to do from my former days on this forum, and you need to continue to exercise the skills you developed as a UPC PK: slandering, bearing false witness, and condemning others from the safety of your privileged position as the pastor's kid.
Every good story needs a peanut gallery; thank you for volunteering!

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

n.david, I must say, from what you have posted so far on this thread, you seem to exhibit the less desirable character traits of some (thankfully not all) preachers' kids I have known during my years in the UPC: rude, sarcastic, and and substandard reading and comprehension skills compensated for by insinuation and false accusation. But please, continue with your comments: I have some well deserved reaping to do from my former days on this forum, and you need to continue to exercise the skills you developed as a UPC PK: slandering, bearing false witness, and condemning others from the safety of your privileged position as the pastor's kid.
Every good story needs a peanut gallery; thank you for volunteering!

That's exactly how I felt when I started getting the backlash of my revelation. I dished it out plenty well back in the day. I would take it too. Comes with the territory is all.

[Luke]

Why did your family (you and your husband) and our pastor wait to ask these questions until there were new people attending your church?

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Luke

Why did your family (you and your husband) and our pastor wait to ask these questions until there were new people attending your church?

I take it the insinuation must be that he had ulterior motives, such as wanting a larger congregation, and that is why he changed his views. Well, I'll let Roxanne answer the question but I just want to say that the two may have nothing at all to do with each other.