Apostle Junia--Female Apostle

[Sister Alvear]

I sure can agree that most younger women do not know how to cook and many do not know how to clean...very sad day....While we have no problem with a woman sharing the gospel we are strong on the older sisters helping and teaching the younger ones....I have for many years taught them how to make soap...plant gardens and care for their children....If GOD has a word for me through a woman I am sure HIS word will be through a vessel that is pure, clean and holy...and the same for a man as far as that goes...I don't have use for lazy men that do not work....

[Sister Alvear]

I really don't believe in a woman working outside the home except on rare occasions...too many women working outside the home while the television babysits the kids....

Well....don't get me started....ha....

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by Sean

There a far more women in Pentecost than men that I see. They can usurp authority over each other as the scripture teaches the Elder women to instruct the younger. That is a HUGE undertaking these days. Half of them(younger women) dont cook or clean house anymore. They can also mentor them in the word. They have no business crossing the line and usurping men.

Sean, the first flaw in your logic is believing that, as a man, you have authority over all women.

The second flaw is believing that anyone, man or woman, has authority over another simply by ministering to them.

The third flaw is your understanding of the word 'usurp' and incorrectly defining it in a situation where it's not taking place.

[Sean]

Show me in the BIBLE how I am flawed please.

[obriencp]

Originally Posted by Sean

My friend, the Ladies beat the tar out of me on this subject. I am shaking as I tell you that Paul forbid women usurping authority over men in the early cccchhhhuuurrrch. Ouch Ouch Ouuch

Just because a woman is used in ministry does not make her an authoritive figure. Is a female usher taking authority over you? When a female singer is ministering in song, are you under her authority? When a female is ministering in testimony and exhaulting the Lord, are you under her authority? If a female is giving a bible study, is she exercising authority over you?

Originally Posted by Sasha

Sean, the first flaw in your logic is believing that, as a man, you have authority over all women.

The second flaw is believing that anyone, man or woman, has authority over another simply by ministering to them.

The third flaw is your understanding of the word 'usurp' and incorrectly defining it in a situation where it's not taking place.

[Sister Alvear]

for 46 years I have just let people talk...become friends... then disfellowship over this subject...while (not bragging) I have told thousands the way to heaven...call it preaching...call it testifying...whatever....
Acts 20:22-24, “And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there: Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me. But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.”

[Sean]

Well, I do not in any way belittle the work of the ladies, the thread is about a female Apostle.

That is a position of authority over the saints.(teaching). Its not Biblical folks.


Paul said.....1 Timothy 2:12
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.(that means not teaching men, folks)

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Sean

Well, I do not in any way belittle the work of the ladies, the thread is about a female Apostle.

That is a position of authority over the saints.(teaching). Its not Biblical folks.


Paul said.....1 Timothy 2:12
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.(that means not teaching men, folks)

I nothing else, this post has caused me to go back and restudy this subject. Glad I did, because you make some off the wall statements that these passages do not address.

When are we going to get that the ministry are not nor ever have been intended to be positions of authority. They are positions of servitude, when has a servant ever at the same time had authority? Jesus own words tell us that we are not to exercise authority over one another.

We must stop reading these passages, in light of our own day and age, and at face value, and do as Paul instructed Timothy, and that is to study to show ourselves approved.

First off we must couple this passage with the other teachings of Paul to other churches. And the present custom of that period of time, when women were not allowed to partake of the discussions of men concerning scripture in the synagogues, and this was carried into the early churches. The key word here is found in 1 Cor. 14 where Paul states women were to keep silence in the church (assembly), where they would come to discus and debate scripture. Paul speaks of order in the assembly that God is not a God of confusion. Hence the women not taking part in the debates.
This by no means meant that women could not teach outside the general assembly or gatherings. Nor a women speaking a word of prophecy in the assembly.

The above being said, Paul is speaking in 1 Cor. 11 about women prophesying in the church, and that this was allowable as long as she was in proper submission with her head, (husband).

Our biggest problem in my opinion, is that we have an improper view of the authority of the ministry within the church. One I might add has been inherited from our Roman Catholic brethren. That of giving unscriptural authority to men over the saints of God.

[shazeep]

Nice, GD. I'm of the opinion that there were only 12 apostles, personally. And this kind of (usually self-) titling reeks of personal aggrandizement imo. 'Bishops' and 'elders' mostly included!

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

I nothing else, this post has caused me to go back and restudy this subject. Glad I did, because you make some off the wall statements that these passages do not address.

When are we going to get that the ministry are not nor ever have been intended to be positions of authority. They are positions of servitude, when has a servant ever at the same time had authority? Jesus own words tell us that we are not to exercise authority over one another.

We must stop reading these passages, in light of our own day and age, and at face value, and do as Paul instructed Timothy, and that is to study to show ourselves approved.

First off we must couple this passage with the other teachings of Paul to other churches. And the present custom of that period of time, when women were not allowed to partake of the discussions of men concerning scripture in the synagogues, and this was carried into the early churches. The key word here is found in 1 Cor. 14 where Paul states women were to keep silence in the church (assembly), where they would come to discus and debate scripture. Paul speaks of order in the assembly that God is not a God of confusion. Hence the women not taking part in the debates.
This by no means meant that women could not teach outside the general assembly or gatherings. Nor a women speaking a word of prophecy in the assembly.

The above being said, Paul is speaking in 1 Cor. 11 about women prophesying in the church, and that this was allowable as long as she was in proper submission with her head, (husband).

Our biggest problem in my opinion, is that we have an improper view of the authority of the ministry within the church. One I might add has been inherited from our Roman Catholic brethren. That of giving unscriptural authority to men over the saints of God.

Brother Loren, do you see what you just did here?.....Paul said.....1 Timothy 2:12
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.(that means not teaching men, folks)


You just EXPLAINED AWAY the passage that was clear as a bell.....Think about it.....