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  #21  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:15 PM
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navygoat1998 navygoat1998 is offline
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Re: The doctrine of subsequence

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
I've never thought of that. What I always felt drew me to the UPC originally was that I knew the AoG was becoming less and less Pentecostal.
Bro I can see that. That is why I love our church, it is very Pentecostal, even this last Sunday the Holy Ghost moved and fell. I have been blessed that all the AG churches we have been a part of have been very Pentecostal.

God knows the desire of my heart.

Next month Pastor Tommy Bates will be preaching at our church.

Been praying for wisdom for you. God has a home for you and your family.
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Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
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  #22  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:16 PM
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renee819 renee819 is offline
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Re: The doctrine of subsequence

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
I don't buy the idea that Holy Ghost baptism is a subsequent experience in relation to some form of initial salvation. I believe that the baptism of the Holy Ghost is essentially being born of the Spirit. Now, as it relates to initial evidence, I believe that the typical evidence is tongues. I'll accept "stammering lips" in that a person experiencing the baptism of the Holy Ghost often holds back, afraid of what it will sound like, or doesn't honestly understand what is happening to them. I simply do not see Holy Ghost baptism being a subsequent experience.
Right Aquila, It takes all three steps that Peter and the Book of Acts brings out, for a person to be born of the water an the Spirit.
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  #23  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:19 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: The doctrine of subsequence

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Originally Posted by navygoat1998 View Post
Bro I can see that. That is why I love our church, it is very Pentecostal, even this last Sunday the Holy Ghost moved and fell. I have been blessed that all the AG churches we have been a part of have been very Pentecostal.

God knows the desire of my heart.

Next month Pastor Tommy Bates will be preaching at our church.

Been praying for wisdom for you. God has a home for you and your family.
Thanks! Sometimes I wonder if I fit in anywhere. But God knows where I truly belong.
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  #24  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:21 PM
houston houston is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renee819 View Post

Right Aquila, It takes all three steps that Peter and the Book of Acts brings out, for a person to be born of the water an the Spirit.
Water and spirit both refer to the Holy Spirit.
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  #25  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:22 PM
houston houston is offline
Isaiah 56:4-5


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist View Post

Thanks! Sometimes I wonder if I fit in anywhere. But God knows where I truly belong.
Some people (me) don't fit anywhere.
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  #26  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:27 PM
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renee819 renee819 is offline
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Re: The doctrine of subsequence

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
And once again those who oppose the plain bible truth make a caricature of the bible doctrine of the new birth. Attempting to split the works of God in saving souls into clear, distinct, definite, SEPARATE events, as though they are not interconnected and interdependent.

The apostles received the Spirit on the day of Pentecost. If anyone had correct teaching or understanding of the role and purpose of the Spirit, it was them.

Acts8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

The Samaritan believers were believers, had 'received the Word of God', were baptised in Jesus' name... but had not received the Holy Ghost.

Not 'had not received the subsequent baptism of the Spirit as a second definite work of grace distinct from the initial reception of the Spirit'. No, the BIBLE's words are 'received the Holy Ghost'. They had not RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST.

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Same words. RECEIVE the HOLY GHOST. The Samaritans had not RECEIVED the HOLY GHOST until the apostles came down and prayed for them, until the Spirit had 'fallen upon' them.

Speaking of that 'falling upon' business...

Acts1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Jesus is saying that after they receive the Spirit, after the spirit 'is come upon you', they would receive power, and they would be witnesses unto Him. He did not say they would receive power after the subsequent baptism of the Spirit distinct from the receiving of the Spirit...

Again:

Acts10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

The spirit 'fell upon' the Gentiles, the GIFT of the Spirit (the Spirit is the gift of God to the believer) was 'poured out' upon the Gentiles, and Peter says the Gentiles 'received the Holy Ghost'

Further along, Peter says:

Acts11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

So receiving the Spirit, being baptised with the Spirit, the Spirit falling upon people, the gift of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit being poured out upon, being filled with the Spirit, are all terms for the same experience.

They are all terms for that which is called 'receiving the Spirit'. How can you 'receive the Spirit' without receiving the Spirit? Also, if the Holy Ghost baptism is called 'receiving the Spirit', then it follows that the Spirit is received via the Holy Spirit baptism.

The doctrine that being baptised with the Spirit is a different thing from 'receiving the Spirit' is unknown to the apostles. Therefore, it is a false doctrine. This is so basic I marvel that any professing Pentecostal cannot see it.
AMEN!!! We have got to hold onto that FOUNDATION.
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  #27  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:33 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: The doctrine of subsequence

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Originally Posted by houston View Post
Water and spirit both refer to the Holy Spirit.
I agree.
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  #28  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:34 PM
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renee819 renee819 is offline
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Re: The doctrine of subsequence

Originally Posted by renee819
Quote:
Right Aquila, It takes all three steps that Peter and the Book of Acts brings out, for a person to be born of the water an the Spirit
.

Houston wrote,
Quote:
Water and spirit both refer to the Holy Spirit
.

Then Houston, Please tell me, after Jesus poured out the Holy Ghost at Cornelius house, why did Peter then baptize them in water, if “Water and spirit both refer to the Holy Spirit.”????
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  #29  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:40 PM
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renee819 renee819 is offline
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Re: The doctrine of subsequence

Originalist wrote,
Quote:
Thanks! Sometimes I wonder if I fit in anywhere. But God knows where I truly belong.
And I'm in the same boat. I don't feel that I fit anywhere.
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  #30  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:44 PM
houston houston is offline
Isaiah 56:4-5


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renee819 View Post
Originally Posted by renee819
.

Houston wrote,
.

Then Houston, Please tell me, after Jesus poured out the Holy Ghost at Cornelius house, why did Peter then baptize them in water, if “Water and spirit both refer to the Holy Spirit.”????
I would tell you, but you like to boast about your studying for over 50 years. So, I conclude that it will fall on deaf ears and blind eyes.
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