An Apostolic Approach to Scripture

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by A.W. Bowman

After being absent from the forum for so long, it is refreshing to see folks actually beginning to actually question the health and status of the church today!

It is also nice to see some may familiar faces. LOLOL

Brother Yates, welcome to the fray - you are a most welcome addition.

Elder I don't know you but welcome back.

[A.W. Bowman]

As I am sometimes known to engage in - the offering of questions, well, that has not changed much. LOLOL

So, here are a few of the questions I have been asking my Apostolic/Pentecostal friends:

What did Andrew teach concerning giving?
What did Philip teach on the resurrection of Christ? and
What did Judas teach on forgiveness? finally,
What did all of the Apostles teach on obedience?

If we are "apostolic", as we profess, then we should know exactly what they taught on these kinds and types of subjects - and follow their teaching and apply it to our lives.

Now the question becomes, do we really know what the Apostle taught and do we live our lives according to their teaching? Yes, we do know (or at least have available to us) what each and every ordained Apostle taught. It is laid out very clearly in the New Covenant writings. Yet, do we practice their teaching? Sadly the answer is mostly no. Why? Because we do not know what they taught. We do not spend time studying the word of God. We only spent a little time reading it to find those passages that seem to support what we already believe.

Studying and reading are not the same thing! Reading is mostly passing the time of day. Studying, however, is hard work. It requires time, effort and commitment.

Okay, kids, I am off my soap box.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by A.W. Bowman

As I am sometimes known to engage in - the offering of questions, well, that has not changed much. LOLOL

So, here are a few of the questions I have been asking my Apostolic/Pentecostal friends:

What did Andrew teach concerning giving?
What did Philip teach on the resurrection of Christ? and
What did Judas teach on forgiveness? finally,
What did all of the Apostles teach on obedience?

If we are "apostolic", as we profess, then we should know exactly what they taught on these kinds and types of subjects - and follow their teaching and apply it to our lives.

Now the question becomes, do we really know what the Apostle taught and do we live our lives according to their teaching? Yes, we do know (or at least have available to us) what each and every ordained Apostle taught. It is laid out very clearly in the New Covenant writings. Yet, do we practice their teaching? Sadly the answer is mostly no. Why? Because we do not know what they taught. We do not spend time studying the word of God. We only spent a little time reading it to find those passages that seem to support what we already believe.

Studying and reading are not the same thing! Reading is mostly passing the time of day. Studying, however, is hard work. It requires time, effort and commitment.

Okay, kids, I am off my soap box.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by A.W. Bowman

As I am sometimes known to engage in - the offering of questions, well, that has not changed much. LOLOL

So, here are a few of the questions I have been asking my Apostolic/Pentecostal friends:

What did Andrew teach concerning giving?
What did Philip teach on the resurrection of Christ? and
What did Judas teach on forgiveness? finally,
What did all of the Apostles teach on obedience?

If we are "apostolic", as we profess, then we should know exactly what they taught on these kinds and types of subjects - and follow their teaching and apply it to our lives.

Now the question becomes, do we really know what the Apostle taught and do we live our lives according to their teaching? Yes, we do know (or at least have available to us) what each and every ordained Apostle taught. It is laid out very clearly in the New Covenant writings. Yet, do we practice their teaching? Sadly the answer is mostly no. Why? Because we do not know what they taught. We do not spend time studying the word of God. We only spent a little time reading it to find those passages that seem to support what we already believe.

Studying and reading are not the same thing! Reading is mostly passing the time of day. Studying, however, is hard work. It requires time, effort and commitment.

Okay, kids, I am off my soap box.

Great to see you back Bro. Bowman It has been a while!

I agree that studying scripture is much more intensive, and life changing, than simply just reading. However, not all people are equipped for study. Some struggle to read basic and simple text with understanding, much less trying to study and understand the grammar and text of Greek and Hebrew.

I myself prefer to study rather than just read. I believe Paul when he said in II Tim. 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

To take a stab at your questions, I'll just say that I know of no written record of Andrew, Philip, or Judas. What writings are you referring to?

As to the obedience taught by the apostles... that's a large subject....

However, I think of one scripture in Romans 6:17-18 that says "But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you, being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness."

And then continuing in vs 22 "But now, being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life."

The obedience that the apostles taught, as evidenced by this scripture, was to obey the form of doctrine that was delivered to them, which brought forth deliverance from sin, to change one into a servant of God and of righteousness bearing fruit unto holiness, and the ending being everlasting life.

[A.W. Bowman]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Great to see you back Bro. Bowman It has been a while!

Indeed! I has been over a year.

I agree that studying scripture is much more intensive, and life changing, than simply just reading. However, not all people are equipped for study. Some struggle to read basic and simple text with understanding, much less trying to study and understand the grammar and text of Greek and Hebrew.

Excellent point! My opinion is that God will hold us accountable only for what we know and how we lived that knowledge out in our lives. Even so, He will not overlook willful ignorance.

I myself prefer to study rather than just read. I believe Paul when he said in II Tim. 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

To take a stab at your questions, I'll just say that I know of no written record of Andrew, Philip, or Judas. What writings are you referring to?

Question: What was the gospel that was delivered to the saints, and where did it originate? What would one expect a disciple of any master to teach and to do?

As to the obedience taught by the apostles... that's a large subject....

Right on! It is a very large subject. Yet, it has a simple solution.

However, I think of one scripture in Romans 6:17-18 that says "But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you, being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness."

And then continuing in vs 22 "But now, being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life."

The obedience that the apostles taught, as evidenced by this scripture, was to obey the form of doctrine that was delivered to them, which brought forth deliverance from sin, to change one into a servant of God and of righteousness bearing fruit unto holiness, and the ending being everlasting life.

Love it - you do well! Which brings to: What, exactly, was the doctrine that was "delivered to them"?

Ah, my friend, you have done better than most in addressing these kinds of questions - truly!

Now consider that the apostles were first and foremost disciples of Jesus. If one is identified as a disciple of a teacher, what did that entail?

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by A.W. Bowman

Ah, my friend, you have done better than most in addressing these kinds of questions - truly!

Now consider that the apostles were first and foremost disciples of Jesus. If one is identified as a disciple of a teacher, what did that entail?

Matt 4:23—“And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.”
Rom 15:19—“Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.”
Matt 24:14—“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”

Does your Gospel include the preaching of signs and wonders? That of the Apostolic Church does!
The “gospel” preached in the absence of signs and wonders is not the Gospel of the Kingdom!

Luke 6:40--"A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone who is perfectly trained will be like his teacher.(NKJV)

Great to make your acquaintance Sir! I look forward to getting to know you!

[A.W. Bowman]

Thank you Brother Yates. I am looking forward to having fruitful exchanges with you.

Some comments:

What most professing Christians seem to forget, or ignore altogether, at least most of the ones I have met, is that (1) there is no record anywhere of the apostles of the Christ that ever ran from their calling - with the notable exception of Judas Iscariot, of course. Consequentially they must have remained true to their calling and taught others exactly what they had been taught by the Master, (2) and so few know nor understand what it meant to be a disciple of a Torah teacher during the second Temple era, or what the Apostles or other disciples of Christ taught, out side of the letters of Paul and the few other contributors to the N.T. writings.

What I find so distressing is that so few actually care enough to find out what the disciples of Christ actually taught - of those only a hand full will actually obey the commands/teaching of the Master - which is the very thing that the Apostles gave their lives to uphold, and to teach others to do.

This, coupled with not understanding what it means to "make disciples of all nations." i.e., to duplicate themselves in others as "disciples of the Christ", seems to indite those who would be teachers of the word. By failing to imparting the same Christ given doctrines/commands, calling and responsibilities to those entering into the Faith.

Today's teachers have made more disciples after themselves than they have of Jesus Christ. The evidence of this is the physical number of different religious groups, organizations, and denominations that mark our cities.

So, you sir, hit one of my "hot buttons" with your initial post on this thread - and I loved it!

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by A.W. Bowman

Ah, my friend, you have done better than most in addressing these kinds of questions - truly!

Now consider that the apostles were first and foremost disciples of Jesus. If one is identified as a disciple of a teacher, what did that entail?

Of course, the teachings of the 11 disciples had to be what they heard from Jesus. Combined with the outpouring of the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost, with their understanding being enlightened, and after having Jesus living inside them, indeed yes, the teachings of Jesus were the very things the disciples preached and taught.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by larrylyates

Matt 4:23—“And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.”
Rom 15:19—“Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.”
Matt 24:14—“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”

Does your Gospel include the preaching of signs and wonders? That of the Apostolic Church does!
The “gospel” preached in the absence of signs and wonders is not the Gospel of the Kingdom!

Amen and amen! What IS the gospel unless it has the power and ability to transform and change lives!

The death, burial and resurrection gospel applied in a surrendered life to Jesus = The miraculous demonstration of the Spirit

Said another way: The message of the gospel, brought forth from a life completely surrendered and sold out to Jesus will have the power, the signs, and the wonders following it.

[A.W. Bowman]

I think I might have posted something like this a couple of years ago - I don't remember. Age I guess.

Anyway, now for the hard question:

Gentlemen, how many of the universal instructions (commandments) that Jesus gave to His disciples do we know, understand, and observe to do - and teach others the same?

I must admit that I did not score well on this quiz. Now I am working harder to learn and to do. /sigh/

But, I now see a difference in being 'apostolic' from a modern day view point, and being a disciple of Christ from an historical perspective. It is the difference between trying to get everything 'right' so as to gain the approval of men, and living and walking in the Spirit in order to gain the approval of God.

The hard part is wiping the slate clean of all of the doctrines of men and learning how to actually study the Bible for what it says in spite of what men have made it out to say, in order to support their personal agendas and 'good' religious ideas. It also requires us to step away from all of the social and religious trappings of the modern church performances (trappings and rituals) and seek the simplicity of living our lives according to God's precepts - not our own.

Ah, the difference between conformity and unity. So often we strive for congregational conformity (dress, words, actions, etc.) and call it unity, and then wonder why yet another church/organization splits. Truly, today Christ is divided. The sad part is the body of Christ has been plagued with these same kinds of problems from the very start, and that explains why Paul had to write so many letters of correction. The problems are not new, they just look different.

So, what is the solution? As starters, my recommendations are these: Flock to leaders who teach the word of God - as He intended for it to be taught, rather than listening to those who simply preach about the word. Follow after those who encourage each individual to take responsibility for their own salvation and not to rely on church dogma or pastoral edicts. Find leadership that guides others toward spiritual maturity rather than spiritual dependance. Find those who point everyone toward Christ, Himself, and then gets out of the way.

As one preacher stated so well, "If Jesus came back today He would not cleanse the Temple, He would cleanse the pulpit."