Death:

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The great weight of scripture indicates when you die you go to the grave which is called Hades/Sheol. There is only one human being at present who has been made immortal.

13 I command you before God, who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate testified the good confession, 14 that you keep the commandment without spot, blameless, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ; 15 which in its own times he will show, who is the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and eternal power. Amen. 1 Tim. 6:13-16

This is why the resurrection of Jesus was called "the good news" or gospel. Because there is hope of life after death.

Proof texting and heresy. The passage must be put into context...

I Timothy 6:11-16 (ESV)
11 But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 13 I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before[d] Pontius Pilate made the good confession, 14 to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.

The subject is the risen Christ (who is also God). He alone is no longer subject to death. Why? Because He is risen from the dead. This has nothing to do with the afterlife.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

I've had people tell me things about the "other side".

Some would say it was beautiful "over there". Some would see dead loved ones.

One man, who was resuscitated, said he was in a horrible place.

I once walked into a hospital room to treat a patient. She told me she was seeing ghosts (she called them "ghostes") all night. I asked her if she knew the people and she said no.

My friend had an angel stay with her in her hospital room just days before her death. The angel told her that she was going to take her home. I felt comforted when I heard that because we had some talks about dying. She said she did not fear death, but she feared what she would have to go through to pass over to the other side. The angel made it easy for her. Angels are sent by God, I believe.

I have several stories that people have told me, some are incredible. I'd rather not post them because the stories they have told me are close to my heart. Some would try to explain them away. I believe that they reported just what they saw.

My own son saw an angel sitting outside his bedroom door watching over him. The angel walked over to him and touched him, rubbing his legs and he went back to sleep.

Wonderful testimony.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The great weight of scripture indicates when you die you go to the grave which is called Hades/Sheol. There is only one human being at present who has been made immortal.

13 I command you before God, who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate testified the good confession, 14 that you keep the commandment without spot, blameless, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ; 15 which in its own times he will show, who is the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and eternal power. Amen. 1 Tim. 6:13-16

This is why the resurrection of Jesus was called "the good news" or gospel. Because there is hope of life after death.

Michael... soul sleep and annhilationism is egregious error, heresy.

Oh Michael, what will you do when you draw your final breath and find yourself aware and subject to God's judgment? Will you demand that he put you back to sleep? I tell you... Jesus told the theif, "THIS DAY", with regards to being in Paradise. Paul said to be absent from the body (note... ABSENT FROM THE BODY) is to be present with the Lord. John saw the SOULS of those martyred pleading for justice in the Revelation.

All of the verses you have given... and you're only sticking to a single narrow context that doesn't allow for any other meaning.

And... this from a man who believes we must live absolutely sinless to be saved... Pitiful.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Michael... soul sleep and annhilationism is egregious error, heresy.

Oh Michael, what will you do when you draw your final breath and find yourself aware and subject to God's judgment? Will you demand that he put you back to sleep? I tell you... Jesus told the theif, "THIS DAY", with regards to being in Paradise. Paul said to be absent from the body (note... ABSENT FROM THE BODY) is to be present with the Lord. John saw the SOULS of those martyred pleading for justice in the Revelation.

All of the verses you have given... and you're only sticking to a single narrow context that doesn't allow for any other meaning.

And... this from a man who believes we must live absolutely sinless to be saved... Pitiful.

Quite the contrary there is far more scripture that teaches THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD than "immortal soul".

Resurrection of the dead is a FOUNDATION DOCTRINE of Hebrews chapter 6. Paul does not frame eternal life apart from it.

The Apostle (knowing full well Jesus teaching) mentions Hades ONE TIME.

And that one time is declared the time when Christians are RESURRECTED FROM IT.

In an overall discussion , not mere "sound bites" it is revealed just how fragile and taken out of context "immortal soul" is.

You brush aside the three part study I presented as PROOF TEXTING.

We have now gone SO FAR from knowing how to teach and understand scripture that rightly dividing the word of truth is reduced to being called "proof texting".

The truth is that in all cases the weak, fragile doctrine of immortal soul can ONLY STAND by always qualifying your position by inserting the idea that the resurrection of THE BODY is something different than the granting of eternal life and immortality.

[Michael The Disciple]

And... this from a man who believes we must live absolutely sinless to be saved... Pitiful.

The man who believes we must be perfect even as the Father is perfect is named Yeshua HaMashiah. Read Matt. 5:48 and allow him the risen Lord to speak!

I am very content to be in his company and accept his teaching come what may. That has been my passion since Feb. 15 1974. What men think about my walk has never meant anything to me.

Now what YESHUA thinks.......THAT is very serious to me. So while you rush to put me in Gehenna I will continue to dwell in him even in the secret place of the most high.

I will do whatever I can to bring forth New Testament restoration. I have no other purpose for walking around on this planet.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Proof texting and heresy. The passage must be put into context...

I Timothy 6:11-16 (ESV)
11 But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 13 I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before[d] Pontius Pilate made the good confession, 14 to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.

The subject is the risen Christ (who is also God). He alone is no longer subject to death. Why? Because He is risen from the dead. This has nothing to do with the afterlife.

The subject is Christ, yes. But we are told HE ONLY IS IMMORTAL.

That should be powerful proof that no one else is. Think about it. He ALONE has IMMORTALITY. That means no one else does.

That verse proves that Paul understood the parables and visions as needing to be reconciled to the plain teaching not the other way around. He knew the parable of Lazarus and the rich man was just an illustration concerning eternal life after death and not that Yeshua was now teaching something as doctrine that would contradict the teaching given in the OT.

After all he would have not been able to say Yeshua ONLY has immortality if Abraham and the beggar, and the thief on the cross also had it.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The subject is Christ, yes. But we are told HE ONLY IS IMMORTAL.

That should be powerful proof that no one else is. Think about it. He ALONE has IMMORTALITY. That means no one else does.

He only is immortal because we are yet subject to death and dying. He is already glorified. This has nothing to do with the afterlife.

That verse proves that Paul understood the parables and visions as needing to be reconciled to the plain teaching not the other way around. He knew the parable of Lazarus and the rich man was just an illustration concerning eternal life after death and not that Yeshua was now teaching something as doctrine that would contradict the teaching given in the OT.

Old Testament was nothing by types and shadows. It wasn't a complete revelation. What Christ indicated is far more detailed, as expected, because He is God.

Also, the Pharisees, and most mainstream Jews, believed in the afterlife long before Christ's birth. Yet Jesus never rebukes them for such a false belief. Instead, Christ's lesson concerning Lazarus and the rich man, in addition to Christ promising the thief on the cross Paradise that very day, all indicate that He two proclaimed life after death. Add to this Paul's statement regarding being ABSENT from the body being PRESENT with the Lord. And... John's vision of the SOULS of martyred believers before the throne in the Revelation.

After all he would have not been able to say Yeshua ONLY has immortality if Abraham and the beggar, and the thief on the cross also had it.

Not so. Here's why... Jesus has already entered the eternal glorified state. No one else has as of yet. Those who have passed on are in a state of death, not immortality. Those of us who are alive are currently subject to death, we are not immortal. However, after the Second Coming, we all shall be resurrected and glorified, like Christ. In that day, we will be like Him... immortal... alive bodily... yet no longer subject to death or dying. Until that day, He alone is currently immortal.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The man who believes we must be perfect even as the Father is perfect is named Yeshua HaMashiah. Read Matt. 5:48 and allow him the risen Lord to speak!

I am very content to be in his company and accept his teaching come what may. That has been my passion since Feb. 15 1974. What men think about my walk has never meant anything to me.

Now what YESHUA thinks.......THAT is very serious to me. So while you rush to put me in Gehenna I will continue to dwell in him even in the secret place of the most high.

I will do whatever I can to bring forth New Testament restoration. I have no other purpose for walking around on this planet.

I haven't put you in Gehenna brother Michael. I'm just pointing out blatant error.

[MarieA27]

But wouldn't death be just like sleep? The same way that if you were in a coma for years and woke up, you'll probably think that it was the same day. Or if you were sick and was sleep for 3 days and awoke you won't automatically know how long that you have been asleep. By the same token, when you die, and have been dead for thousands of years, and arise from the dead you won't know how long that you have been gone, but it'll feel like just a moment, as if you're in that same day.

This is what Jesus meant when He told the thief that he'll see him that day in paradise. Anyway, Jesus didn't even carry that body back up to heaven that same day himself.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by MarieA27

But wouldn't death be just like sleep? The same way that if you were in a coma for years and woke up, you'll probably think that it was the same day. Or if you were sick and was sleep for 3 days and awoke you won't automatically know how long that you have been asleep. By the same token, when you die, and have been dead for thousands of years, and arise from the dead you won't know how long that you have been gone, but it'll feel like just a moment, as if you're in that same day.

This is what Jesus meant when He told the thief that he'll see him that day in paradise. Anyway, Jesus didn't even carry that body back up to heaven that same day himself.

Exactly. It will be as in "a moment in the twinlking of an eye".